On a basic practical level, is any kind of methodology that a Cantonese speaker could use to transpose his native words into Mandarin? James Campbell has recently explained how the tones can be transposed. I was just wondering whether initials and finals could be transposed in any kind of (semi-) systematic manner.
Regards,
rathpy
Cantonese-to-Mandarin
-
Thomas Chan
Re: Cantonese-to-Mandarin
rathpy wrote:
>
> On a basic practical level, is any kind of methodology that a
> Cantonese speaker could use to transpose his native words
> into Mandarin? James Campbell has recently explained how the
> tones can be transposed. I was just wondering whether
> initials and finals could be transposed in any kind of
> (semi-) systematic manner.
It'd theoretically be a similar strategy of converting Cantonese
into an earlier version of the language that it has in common with
Mandarin, and then converting from that to Mandarin. However,
unlike with tones, where the Cantonese tone system is a superset
of such an earlier system, contemporary Cantonese and Mandarin
have different subsets of an earlier system. There are whole books
on this topic about Middle Chinese by authors like Karlgren or
Pulleyblank.
You've probably noticed that you can right away remove anything
that Cantonese has and Mandarin doesn't, such as the final stops
-p, -t, -k, e.g., C. baak 'white' and M. bai/bo; C. mat 'sock' and M.
wa; C. gap 'hurry' and M. ji. You can also turn all final -m to -n,
since Mandarin merged these, e.g., C. saam 'three' and M. san;
C. gim 'sword' and M. jian; C. daam 'courage' and M. dan. You can
also remove initial ng-, e.g., C. ngo 'I; me' and M. wo; C. ngaau
'to bite' and M. yao; C. ngaang 'hard (not soft)' and M. ying. What's
left as the initial in Mandarin is a vowel. (There is one notable
exception here, C. ngau 'cow' and M. niu.)
The stops p-, t-, k- and b-, d-, g- pretty much correspond, also
there are sometimes flips in the aspiration, e.g., C. paau 'panther'
and M. bao. However, there are cases where there'll be
palatalization in Mandarin triggered by a following vowel that
you cannot know exists from Cantonese, e.g., C. gong 'river'
and M. jiang--nothing in Cantonese tells you there'll be a "i" there;
but C. gong 'steel' and M. gang.
The nasal m- corresponds to m- or w-, e.g., C. mong
'busy' and M. mang; C. mong 'to forget' and M. wang. n- pretty
much corresponds as far as I know, although you might run into
trouble if you've learned some words with the innovative l-
pronunciation, e.g., to convert *laam 'male', you have to know
it should be naam, and then convert to M. nan. ng- I've already
mentioned above. l- corresponds to l-; I don't know of any exceptions
there except for the gotcha I just mentioned above.
Now, things get messier. What is hu- in Mandarin corresponds to
w- or f- in Cantonese, e.g., M. hua 'flower' and C. fa, M. hua 'Chinese'
and C. wa. (This is why the surnames M. huang 'yellow' and M.
wang 'king' are identical in Cantonese as wong.) h- corresponds to
h- or k-, the latter because some words which were once k- have
degenerated to h- in Cantonese, e.g., C. hoi 'to open' and M. kai,
C. hoi 'ocean' and M. hai. Also, some h- would correspond to a
palatized form in Mandarin from a vowel you cannot discern from
the Cantonese, e.g., C. hong 'row' and M. hang; C. haang 'to walk'
and M. xing--note these are written with the same character.
What is r- in Mandarin corresponds to y- in Cantonese, but not
necessarily vice versa (though none of the information I present
here is meant to enable two-way conversion), e.g., M. ren 'person
and C. yan; M. ruan 'soft' and C. yun; M. re 'hot' and C. yit. y- in
Cantonese besides mapping to M. r- also maps to y-, e.g., C. ying
'falcon' and M. ying, but also x-, e.g., C. ying 'form/shape' and M. xing.
w- in Cantonese maps to w-, but also hu- as mentioned above, e.g.,
C. wa 'doll' and M. wa; C. wa 'speech' and M. hua.
Then there's places where you cannot convert, because Cantonese
has preserved less than Mandarin. The coronal affricates and fricative
are a problem, e.g., M. shan 'mountain' and san 'scattered' vs. C.
saan and saan; M. chan 'shovel' and can 'meal' vs. C. chaan and chaan;
M. zhu 'bamboo' and zu 'tribe' vs. C. juk and juk.
Hope that sampler satisfies your curiousity. I haven't gone into all
the initials, nor all the details of the initials I've presented, because
there is quite a lot, and a lot of exceptions. As for finals--that is even
more complicated, although you can generally expect the vowels to be
pretty similar. Of course, it goes without saying that there's little point
in converting colloquial words that don't have a cognate in Mandarin.
Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu
>
> On a basic practical level, is any kind of methodology that a
> Cantonese speaker could use to transpose his native words
> into Mandarin? James Campbell has recently explained how the
> tones can be transposed. I was just wondering whether
> initials and finals could be transposed in any kind of
> (semi-) systematic manner.
It'd theoretically be a similar strategy of converting Cantonese
into an earlier version of the language that it has in common with
Mandarin, and then converting from that to Mandarin. However,
unlike with tones, where the Cantonese tone system is a superset
of such an earlier system, contemporary Cantonese and Mandarin
have different subsets of an earlier system. There are whole books
on this topic about Middle Chinese by authors like Karlgren or
Pulleyblank.
You've probably noticed that you can right away remove anything
that Cantonese has and Mandarin doesn't, such as the final stops
-p, -t, -k, e.g., C. baak 'white' and M. bai/bo; C. mat 'sock' and M.
wa; C. gap 'hurry' and M. ji. You can also turn all final -m to -n,
since Mandarin merged these, e.g., C. saam 'three' and M. san;
C. gim 'sword' and M. jian; C. daam 'courage' and M. dan. You can
also remove initial ng-, e.g., C. ngo 'I; me' and M. wo; C. ngaau
'to bite' and M. yao; C. ngaang 'hard (not soft)' and M. ying. What's
left as the initial in Mandarin is a vowel. (There is one notable
exception here, C. ngau 'cow' and M. niu.)
The stops p-, t-, k- and b-, d-, g- pretty much correspond, also
there are sometimes flips in the aspiration, e.g., C. paau 'panther'
and M. bao. However, there are cases where there'll be
palatalization in Mandarin triggered by a following vowel that
you cannot know exists from Cantonese, e.g., C. gong 'river'
and M. jiang--nothing in Cantonese tells you there'll be a "i" there;
but C. gong 'steel' and M. gang.
The nasal m- corresponds to m- or w-, e.g., C. mong
'busy' and M. mang; C. mong 'to forget' and M. wang. n- pretty
much corresponds as far as I know, although you might run into
trouble if you've learned some words with the innovative l-
pronunciation, e.g., to convert *laam 'male', you have to know
it should be naam, and then convert to M. nan. ng- I've already
mentioned above. l- corresponds to l-; I don't know of any exceptions
there except for the gotcha I just mentioned above.
Now, things get messier. What is hu- in Mandarin corresponds to
w- or f- in Cantonese, e.g., M. hua 'flower' and C. fa, M. hua 'Chinese'
and C. wa. (This is why the surnames M. huang 'yellow' and M.
wang 'king' are identical in Cantonese as wong.) h- corresponds to
h- or k-, the latter because some words which were once k- have
degenerated to h- in Cantonese, e.g., C. hoi 'to open' and M. kai,
C. hoi 'ocean' and M. hai. Also, some h- would correspond to a
palatized form in Mandarin from a vowel you cannot discern from
the Cantonese, e.g., C. hong 'row' and M. hang; C. haang 'to walk'
and M. xing--note these are written with the same character.
What is r- in Mandarin corresponds to y- in Cantonese, but not
necessarily vice versa (though none of the information I present
here is meant to enable two-way conversion), e.g., M. ren 'person
and C. yan; M. ruan 'soft' and C. yun; M. re 'hot' and C. yit. y- in
Cantonese besides mapping to M. r- also maps to y-, e.g., C. ying
'falcon' and M. ying, but also x-, e.g., C. ying 'form/shape' and M. xing.
w- in Cantonese maps to w-, but also hu- as mentioned above, e.g.,
C. wa 'doll' and M. wa; C. wa 'speech' and M. hua.
Then there's places where you cannot convert, because Cantonese
has preserved less than Mandarin. The coronal affricates and fricative
are a problem, e.g., M. shan 'mountain' and san 'scattered' vs. C.
saan and saan; M. chan 'shovel' and can 'meal' vs. C. chaan and chaan;
M. zhu 'bamboo' and zu 'tribe' vs. C. juk and juk.
Hope that sampler satisfies your curiousity. I haven't gone into all
the initials, nor all the details of the initials I've presented, because
there is quite a lot, and a lot of exceptions. As for finals--that is even
more complicated, although you can generally expect the vowels to be
pretty similar. Of course, it goes without saying that there's little point
in converting colloquial words that don't have a cognate in Mandarin.
Thomas Chan
tc31@cornell.edu
-
rathpy
Re: Cantonese-to-Mandarin
Thomas,
That definitely answers my question, although you've probably piqued my curiosity more than anything.
As an ex-computing guy I was looking through the Cantonese and Mandarin columns of my database, and of course guessed there is correllation between pronuciations. I can see though from your examples that there are enough exceptions and one-way rules for any kind of transformation (be it automated or mental) to be unsuccessful in many cases. Still, I imagine that armed with this information, one could use it in learning. And just knowing the similarities with Mandarin makes me feel better.
Regards,
rathpy
That definitely answers my question, although you've probably piqued my curiosity more than anything.
As an ex-computing guy I was looking through the Cantonese and Mandarin columns of my database, and of course guessed there is correllation between pronuciations. I can see though from your examples that there are enough exceptions and one-way rules for any kind of transformation (be it automated or mental) to be unsuccessful in many cases. Still, I imagine that armed with this information, one could use it in learning. And just knowing the similarities with Mandarin makes me feel better.
Regards,
rathpy
-
Kobo-Daishi
Re: Cantonese-to-Mandarin
Dear Rene,
If you mean bo1 li5 xie2 and not bo li xue then go to the following discussion thread:
http://www.chinalanguage.com/forum/read ... 021&t=1021
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
If you mean bo1 li5 xie2 and not bo li xue then go to the following discussion thread:
http://www.chinalanguage.com/forum/read ... 021&t=1021
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
-
James Campbell
Re: Cantonese-to-Mandarin
Dear Rathpy,
Please view this page using UTF-8 / Unicode to view all the characters in this post properly.
Here I attach information you request regarding the match up of sounds between Cantonese and Mandarin, for both initials and finals. There are better charts to render this information, it's just that they require a much larger amount of input and are very detailed based on Ancient sound classes. These data come directly from 汉语方言概要, 第二版 pages 193-200.
Sounds are represented in IPA, not Pinyin (but I've added Pinyin after the Mandarin in parentheses). Sounds on the left are Cantonese (Guangzhou), and those on the right are Mandarin (Beijing). The book lists all characters which I do not replicate here as that would take me days to input, rather I have listed characters where they are the only ones that apply in exceptions. In parentheses are listed the characters representing Ancient sound classes. ø represents zero consonant (no consonant).
INITIALS
p - p (b) (幫)
p - p' (p) 迫
p - m 秘
p' - p' (p) (滂)
p' - p (b) 抱倍棒編遍
m - m (明)
m - ø(u) (w) (微)
m - p (b) 剝
f - f (非)(敷)(奉)
f - k' (k) (溪)
f - x (h) (曉)
f - ɕ or c, (x) (曉)
t - t (d) (端)(定)
t - t' (t) 特突
t' - t' (t) (透)(定)
t' - t (d) 淡弟
n - n (泥)(娘)
l - l (來)
k - k (g) (見)(群) + a / o / u
k - tc, (j) (見)(群) + i / y
k' - k' (k) (溪)(群)
k' - tc,' (q) (溪)(群)
k' - tc, (q) 臼桕舅
k' - k (g) 概給
k' - c, (x) 吸
ŋ - ø (疑)
ŋ - ø(i) (y) (疑)
ŋ - n 牛倪霓(疑)
ŋ - ø(u) (w) (疑)
ŋ - ø(y) (yu) 岳樂(疑)
h - x (h) (曉)(匣)
h - c, (x) (曉)(匣)
h - k (g) (溪)
h - tc, (j) (溪)
ts - ts (z) (精)(從(仄聲如'罪'))
ts - tc, (j) (精)(從(仄聲如'賤、絕'))
ts - tsr (zh) (知照)(澄床仄聲)
ts - s (s) (邪仄聲)
ts - c, (x) (邪仄聲)
ts' - ts' (c) (清)(穿)(從)
ts' - tc,' (q) (清)(從)
ts' - tc, (j) 踐
ts' - tsr' (ch) (彻穿)(澄床)
ts' - sr (sh) (審)(床)
ts' - s (邪)(心)
ts' - c, (x) (邪)(心)
ts' - tsr (zh) 診疹柱重(章)(澄)
s - s (心)(邪)
s - c, (x) (心)
s - sr (sh) (審)(禪)(穿)
s - tsr' (ch) (禪)(床)
s - ts' (c) 岑涔
j - ø (影)(喻)(疑)
j - ø (影)(日)(止)
j - zr (r) (日)
j - c, (x) (曉)(匣)
j - tc,' (q) (溪)
j - n (疑)
w - ø(u) (w) (影)(喻)
w - ø(y) (yu) (喻)
w - ø(i) (yi) (喻影)
w - x (h) (匣)
w - zr (r) 榮嶸 (喻)
kw - k (g) (見)
kw - tc, (j) (見)(群)
kw - x (h) 轟 (曉)
k'w - k' (k) (溪)
k'w - k (g) 規 (見)
k'w - tc, (j) 菌 (見)
k'w - tc,' (q) 群裙 (群)
ø - ø 阿哀 (影)
FINALS
i - i (yi)
i - ɿ (ih)
i - ɚ (er)
i - ɤ (e) 廁
u - u (wu)
y - u
y - y (yu)
a - a
a - ia
a - ua
ɔ (low o) - o
ɔ (low o) - uo
ɔ (low o) - ɤ (e)
ɔ (low o) - u
oe - uo 朵
oe - ye (ue) 靴
e - ɤ (e)
e - ie
a:i - ai
a:i - ie
a:i - uai
ei - ei
ei - i (yi)
a:u - au (ao)
a:u - iau (iao)
a:u - ou 驟
a:u - ua 抓
ou - au (ao)
ou - ou 都
ou - o 模
ou - y 鬚
ou - uo 做
ou - u (wu)
ai - i (yi)
ai - ɿ (ih)
ai - ei
ai - uei
ɔi - ai
ɔi - uai 外
ɔi - ei 內
oey - y (yu)
oey - ei
oey - uo 騾
oey - uai 衰帥
oey - u (wu)
oey - uei (ui)
ui - ei
ui - uei (ui)
ui - uai
au - ou
au - iou (iu)
au - u 亩浮
iu - iau (iao)
iu - au (ao)
iu - iou (iu) 丟
a:m - an
a:m - ian
am - an
am - ən (en)
am - in
am - yn (yun) 尋
a:n - an
a:n - ian
a:n - uan
an - ən (en)
an - in
an - un
an - yn (yun)
a:ŋ - əŋ (eng)
a:ŋ - aŋ (ang) 棒
a:ŋ - iŋ (ing) 硬
aŋ - iŋ (ing) 杏幸鶯
aŋ - əŋ (eng)
aŋ - ən (en) 肯
aŋ - uŋ (ong)
eŋ - iŋ
eŋ - əŋ (eng)
oen - in
oen - un
oen - ən (en) 榛臻
oen - yn (yun) 訊
oeŋ - aŋ
oeŋ - iaŋ
oeŋ - uaŋ 窗雙霜
ɔn - an
ɔŋ - aŋ
ɔŋ - uaŋ
ɔŋ - iaŋ
im - an
im - ian
in - ian
in - yan 軒
in - an
iŋ - iŋ
iŋ - əŋ (eng)
iŋ - ən (en)
iŋ - yŋ (iong) 瓊兄
iŋ - uŋ (ong) 榮
iŋ - in 勁
un - an
un - uan
un - ən (en)
uŋ - uŋ (ong)
uŋ - uəŋ (weng)
uŋ - əŋ (eng)
uŋ - yŋ (iong)
yn - uan
yn - yan
yn - un
a:p - a
a:p - ia
a:p - i 集
ap - i (yi)
ap - ɿ (ih)
ap - ɤ (e)
ap - u 入
ap - ei 給
a:t - a
a:t - ia
a:t - ua
at - i (yi)
at - ɿ (ih)
at - u
at - ɤ (e) 瑟
at - a
at - y (yu)
at - o 佛
at - ua 袜
a:k - o
a:k - ai
a:k - ɤ (e)
a:k - ei 賊
a:k - uo
a:k - ua 劃
ak - ɤ (e)
ak - ei 北肋黑
ak - o 墨默陌脈
ak - uo 握
ak - ai 麥脈塞
ek - i (yi)
ek - ɿ (ih)
oet - i 栗
oet - u 術述出黜
oet - y (yu)
oek - uo
oek - ye (ue)
oek - iau
ɔt - ɤ (e)
ɔk - o
ɔk - u 朴璞扑
ɔk - uo
ɔk - ye (ue)
ɔk - iau 角
ɔk - ɤ (e)
ip - ie
ip - ɤ (e)
it - ie
it - ɤ (e)
it - i 必
it - ɿ (ih) 秩
ik - i
ik - ɿ (ih)
ik - ie 液
ik - y 域
ut - o
ut - uo
uk - u
uk - y (yu)
uk - ou
uk - iou (iu) 六
yt - uo
yt - ye (ue)
yt - ie 劣
yt - i 乙
m - u (wu) 唔
ŋ - u (wu)
TONES
陰平 - 陰平
陽平 - 陽平
陰上 - 上
陽上 - 上、去
陰去 - 去
陽去 - 去
上陰入 - 陰平、陽平、上、去
下陰入 - 陰平、陽平、上、去
陽入 - 陽平、去
I hope that with this little bit more detailed information, it helps you in your studies.
James Campbell
Please view this page using UTF-8 / Unicode to view all the characters in this post properly.
Here I attach information you request regarding the match up of sounds between Cantonese and Mandarin, for both initials and finals. There are better charts to render this information, it's just that they require a much larger amount of input and are very detailed based on Ancient sound classes. These data come directly from 汉语方言概要, 第二版 pages 193-200.
Sounds are represented in IPA, not Pinyin (but I've added Pinyin after the Mandarin in parentheses). Sounds on the left are Cantonese (Guangzhou), and those on the right are Mandarin (Beijing). The book lists all characters which I do not replicate here as that would take me days to input, rather I have listed characters where they are the only ones that apply in exceptions. In parentheses are listed the characters representing Ancient sound classes. ø represents zero consonant (no consonant).
INITIALS
p - p (b) (幫)
p - p' (p) 迫
p - m 秘
p' - p' (p) (滂)
p' - p (b) 抱倍棒編遍
m - m (明)
m - ø(u) (w) (微)
m - p (b) 剝
f - f (非)(敷)(奉)
f - k' (k) (溪)
f - x (h) (曉)
f - ɕ or c, (x) (曉)
t - t (d) (端)(定)
t - t' (t) 特突
t' - t' (t) (透)(定)
t' - t (d) 淡弟
n - n (泥)(娘)
l - l (來)
k - k (g) (見)(群) + a / o / u
k - tc, (j) (見)(群) + i / y
k' - k' (k) (溪)(群)
k' - tc,' (q) (溪)(群)
k' - tc, (q) 臼桕舅
k' - k (g) 概給
k' - c, (x) 吸
ŋ - ø (疑)
ŋ - ø(i) (y) (疑)
ŋ - n 牛倪霓(疑)
ŋ - ø(u) (w) (疑)
ŋ - ø(y) (yu) 岳樂(疑)
h - x (h) (曉)(匣)
h - c, (x) (曉)(匣)
h - k (g) (溪)
h - tc, (j) (溪)
ts - ts (z) (精)(從(仄聲如'罪'))
ts - tc, (j) (精)(從(仄聲如'賤、絕'))
ts - tsr (zh) (知照)(澄床仄聲)
ts - s (s) (邪仄聲)
ts - c, (x) (邪仄聲)
ts' - ts' (c) (清)(穿)(從)
ts' - tc,' (q) (清)(從)
ts' - tc, (j) 踐
ts' - tsr' (ch) (彻穿)(澄床)
ts' - sr (sh) (審)(床)
ts' - s (邪)(心)
ts' - c, (x) (邪)(心)
ts' - tsr (zh) 診疹柱重(章)(澄)
s - s (心)(邪)
s - c, (x) (心)
s - sr (sh) (審)(禪)(穿)
s - tsr' (ch) (禪)(床)
s - ts' (c) 岑涔
j - ø (影)(喻)(疑)
j - ø (影)(日)(止)
j - zr (r) (日)
j - c, (x) (曉)(匣)
j - tc,' (q) (溪)
j - n (疑)
w - ø(u) (w) (影)(喻)
w - ø(y) (yu) (喻)
w - ø(i) (yi) (喻影)
w - x (h) (匣)
w - zr (r) 榮嶸 (喻)
kw - k (g) (見)
kw - tc, (j) (見)(群)
kw - x (h) 轟 (曉)
k'w - k' (k) (溪)
k'w - k (g) 規 (見)
k'w - tc, (j) 菌 (見)
k'w - tc,' (q) 群裙 (群)
ø - ø 阿哀 (影)
FINALS
i - i (yi)
i - ɿ (ih)
i - ɚ (er)
i - ɤ (e) 廁
u - u (wu)
y - u
y - y (yu)
a - a
a - ia
a - ua
ɔ (low o) - o
ɔ (low o) - uo
ɔ (low o) - ɤ (e)
ɔ (low o) - u
oe - uo 朵
oe - ye (ue) 靴
e - ɤ (e)
e - ie
a:i - ai
a:i - ie
a:i - uai
ei - ei
ei - i (yi)
a:u - au (ao)
a:u - iau (iao)
a:u - ou 驟
a:u - ua 抓
ou - au (ao)
ou - ou 都
ou - o 模
ou - y 鬚
ou - uo 做
ou - u (wu)
ai - i (yi)
ai - ɿ (ih)
ai - ei
ai - uei
ɔi - ai
ɔi - uai 外
ɔi - ei 內
oey - y (yu)
oey - ei
oey - uo 騾
oey - uai 衰帥
oey - u (wu)
oey - uei (ui)
ui - ei
ui - uei (ui)
ui - uai
au - ou
au - iou (iu)
au - u 亩浮
iu - iau (iao)
iu - au (ao)
iu - iou (iu) 丟
a:m - an
a:m - ian
am - an
am - ən (en)
am - in
am - yn (yun) 尋
a:n - an
a:n - ian
a:n - uan
an - ən (en)
an - in
an - un
an - yn (yun)
a:ŋ - əŋ (eng)
a:ŋ - aŋ (ang) 棒
a:ŋ - iŋ (ing) 硬
aŋ - iŋ (ing) 杏幸鶯
aŋ - əŋ (eng)
aŋ - ən (en) 肯
aŋ - uŋ (ong)
eŋ - iŋ
eŋ - əŋ (eng)
oen - in
oen - un
oen - ən (en) 榛臻
oen - yn (yun) 訊
oeŋ - aŋ
oeŋ - iaŋ
oeŋ - uaŋ 窗雙霜
ɔn - an
ɔŋ - aŋ
ɔŋ - uaŋ
ɔŋ - iaŋ
im - an
im - ian
in - ian
in - yan 軒
in - an
iŋ - iŋ
iŋ - əŋ (eng)
iŋ - ən (en)
iŋ - yŋ (iong) 瓊兄
iŋ - uŋ (ong) 榮
iŋ - in 勁
un - an
un - uan
un - ən (en)
uŋ - uŋ (ong)
uŋ - uəŋ (weng)
uŋ - əŋ (eng)
uŋ - yŋ (iong)
yn - uan
yn - yan
yn - un
a:p - a
a:p - ia
a:p - i 集
ap - i (yi)
ap - ɿ (ih)
ap - ɤ (e)
ap - u 入
ap - ei 給
a:t - a
a:t - ia
a:t - ua
at - i (yi)
at - ɿ (ih)
at - u
at - ɤ (e) 瑟
at - a
at - y (yu)
at - o 佛
at - ua 袜
a:k - o
a:k - ai
a:k - ɤ (e)
a:k - ei 賊
a:k - uo
a:k - ua 劃
ak - ɤ (e)
ak - ei 北肋黑
ak - o 墨默陌脈
ak - uo 握
ak - ai 麥脈塞
ek - i (yi)
ek - ɿ (ih)
oet - i 栗
oet - u 術述出黜
oet - y (yu)
oek - uo
oek - ye (ue)
oek - iau
ɔt - ɤ (e)
ɔk - o
ɔk - u 朴璞扑
ɔk - uo
ɔk - ye (ue)
ɔk - iau 角
ɔk - ɤ (e)
ip - ie
ip - ɤ (e)
it - ie
it - ɤ (e)
it - i 必
it - ɿ (ih) 秩
ik - i
ik - ɿ (ih)
ik - ie 液
ik - y 域
ut - o
ut - uo
uk - u
uk - y (yu)
uk - ou
uk - iou (iu) 六
yt - uo
yt - ye (ue)
yt - ie 劣
yt - i 乙
m - u (wu) 唔
ŋ - u (wu)
TONES
陰平 - 陰平
陽平 - 陽平
陰上 - 上
陽上 - 上、去
陰去 - 去
陽去 - 去
上陰入 - 陰平、陽平、上、去
下陰入 - 陰平、陽平、上、去
陽入 - 陽平、去
I hope that with this little bit more detailed information, it helps you in your studies.
James Campbell
-
rathpy
Re: Cantonese-to-Mandarin
James Campbell, Thomas Chan,
May I ask some more questions on what you wrote before...
You said the data came from 汉语?��?概�?, 第�??? When searching for this book, I could only find one citation on the web. Is there any other publication info that would help me obtain a copy please? As I expect it is written in Chinese, it will be a stretch for me to understand at this point, but I'm interested.
The exception characters seem to be missing from a lot of the finals provided. Am I reading the list incorrectly, or did you get fed up with inputting them all? (Hey, but thank you for the one that are there, much appreciated)
The table above indicates that Yang-Ru tones in Cantonese correspond to Yang-Ping or Qu tones in Mandarin - not to Shang. But in another of your posts (where you provided merged tones of Mandarin) the Yang-Ru tone can be merged with Shang...
......I....II...III..IV
Yin...55...214..51...1A/1B/2A/3A
Yang..35...2A...3A...1A/1B/2A/3A
Is there a discrepancy or am I getting this wrong?
Regards,
rathpy
May I ask some more questions on what you wrote before...
You said the data came from 汉语?��?概�?, 第�??? When searching for this book, I could only find one citation on the web. Is there any other publication info that would help me obtain a copy please? As I expect it is written in Chinese, it will be a stretch for me to understand at this point, but I'm interested.
The exception characters seem to be missing from a lot of the finals provided. Am I reading the list incorrectly, or did you get fed up with inputting them all? (Hey, but thank you for the one that are there, much appreciated)
The table above indicates that Yang-Ru tones in Cantonese correspond to Yang-Ping or Qu tones in Mandarin - not to Shang. But in another of your posts (where you provided merged tones of Mandarin) the Yang-Ru tone can be merged with Shang...
......I....II...III..IV
Yin...55...214..51...1A/1B/2A/3A
Yang..35...2A...3A...1A/1B/2A/3A
Is there a discrepancy or am I getting this wrong?
Regards,
rathpy