A very informative site for Taiwanese Hokkien

[Niuc]

Here is a very informative site for Taiwanese Hokkien: http://www.edutech.org.tw

There are some romanisation systems used and not all are easy for beginners, yet the site indeed is very informative.

[Aurelio]

Hi Niuc:

This is page is really very informative

The romanisation system seems to be an offshoot of the gwoyeu romatzyh (hope I spelled that right). Like with its predecessor, the original elegance of the idea of incorporating the tones into the spelling gets destroyed by all the exception rules. Thus, it's "r" for the Church Romanisation 2nd tone, e.g., but it's "ea", "uo" and "y" instead of "er", "ur" and "ir". Since romanisation will mainly be used by people who are English educated or at least used to the western alphabet system, "x" and "f" as tone marks are also somewhat counterintuitive. However much I would like to see a standard for romanisation, I have my doubts that it is going to be so irregular (but if it be, it be ) (Please nobody start a "War of the Romanisation Systems" here, seen too many of these already ...)

To make it a bit easier for myself, I came up with a conversion scheme. Maybe it's helpful for somebody else, too, so here is how it goes: All I do is copy the texts into MS Word and use the "replace all" function as follows:

Church Rom. TMSS replace by
tone 1 f, w = u1 ¹ (alt+0185)
tone 2 r, ea = e2, uo = u2, y = i2 ²(alt+0178)
tone 3 x ³(alt+0179)
tone 4 q, p, t, k leave as is
tone 5 aa, etc., also mm leave as is
(tone 6 =2) ------
tone 7 no mark leave as is
tone 8 h, g, b, d leave as is
", raised n "v" before vowel ⁿ (raised "n" from char. map)

Takes about 5 minutes to reformat the whole text, but I think it makes it a good deal more readable.

Regards,
Aurelio

[Aurelio]

Oops, it didn't like my formatting ... So here we go, one more time

tone 1: TMSS: f, w = u1 ---> replace by "¹" (alt+0185)
tone 2: TMSS: r, ea = e2, uo = u2, y = i2 ---> "²" (alt+0178)
tone 3: TMSS: x ---> replace by "³" (alt+0179)
tone 4: TMSS: q, p, t, k ---> leave as is
tone 5: TMSS: aa, etc., mm ---> leave as is
(tone 6 =2) ------ not applicable
tone 7: TMSS: no mark ---> leave as is
tone 8: TMSS: h, g, b, d ---> leave as is
nasal: TMSS: "v" before vowel ---> "ⁿ" (raised "n" from char. map)

Regards,
Aurelio

[Niuc]

Hi Aurelio,

Thanks for your tips. It helps but since some of tone indicators in TMSS are placed in the middle of words and are still there even when we replace them with numeric, it seems rather confusing. Nonetheless it's much more better than TMSS for me.

Thanks.

Niuc

[Mark]

このコンピュ?[タ化された翻訳が唐ことを私達は望む?Bとにか?
> 私達は?ﾄ度感謝するあなたの家の言語のあなたに言うことを望む?B(
> 私達は映像をやがて見つける )

[Mark]

oops! sorry.

[duaaagiii]

Hi,

Happy holidays. Here is a previous post that contains some links:
viewtopic.php?t=3353&sid=ee9fe643dacc96 ... a72a4be38b

The TL (台羅) romanization system is not much different from TLPA and POJ, so a person knowing one of these can easily pick up the other two.

As for Han characters, the Ministry of Education is still working on a second list of recommended characters that will be much longer than the first list.

[hsia]

I found the The POJ or even TL (台羅) way easier to use the TMSS is confusing, hard to read, and more and more book are published in POJ.
Besides, what is the point? No tone signs? Why the heck? French,Spanish,German,Norwegian use accents signs or special characters, are these low level
languages?
By the way, the Taiwanese profeciency test ( gept like) that the MOE is preparing should be in TL.
To all the Taiwanese: learn POJ, and write some blogs,some books, some comics, use it damit!

here are 2 links:
http://taiwanesegrammar.wordpress.com/

http://taiwanesevocabulary.wordpress.com/
on the second site they have some very cool comics : http://taiwanesevocabulary.wordpress.co ... y/cartoon/

[tadpole]

To all the Taiwanese: learn POJ, and write some blogs,some books, some comics, use it damit!

How can you tell people "use it damit"?

Why should one install additional software, additional fonts, additional input methods, when 26 letters are more than enough? Why should one neglect the tonal-phrase structure of the language? Why should one neglect the neutralized-tone suffixes of the language?

Take a look at http://www.tadpolenese.com/, and I invite you to learn some more about the unique features of this language.

Frankly, Hanyu Pinyin is here to stay. English is here to stay. Do you believe that Wu languages and Cantonese will follow POJ's spelling practice, or will they follow Hanyu Pinyin & English's spelling practices?

Do you think POJ makes a good case for search engine?

Type "sna snia voonair" in Google and see what you get. By the way, this can be entered by virtually anyone in the world with a keyboard. No special input methods, no special diacritics, no special software. Whereever you can type English, you can type Tadpolenese.

And then, think on what POJ can do, and cannot do.

I don't tell people to use Tadpolenese. I tell them to be self-confident, and write down their language, using whatever means they consider appropriate. Self-confidence of the next generation means a lot more to me. Writing down their mother tongue is a totally secondary issue. Please let them be creative.

[hsia]

What I mean by "se it dammit" is use taiwanese on a written form so it won't die, promote your language, write books, translate stuffs, be active.
I dont mean you have to use POJ for that. I mean use the language so people will learn to speak read and write in Taiwaneses too. Like French did with
Breton language who was dying 50 years ago. Now kanguage student learn it as a language, study its literature,etc...

You try , the"tadpolenese" is interesting but I dunno why you absolutely want to get rid of accents, most of languages out of English have some (French,Spanish,Norwegian,...) before Vietnamese were using chinese characters and switched to a romanization system with accents, now evryone can read and write and they don't use chinese characters at all.

And honestly, I don't care about Wu and Cantonese for now, I am fighting for use of Taiwanese. I think it's easier for foreigners to learn with poj because of its clarity ( easy to read,to recognize the tones) and because there are more and more books (not only teaching books, stories,novels) using this system.
Taiwanese can get use to any system as they already speak the language. It's like BOPOMOFO for Mandarin, you can read the word well so easily when most of foreigners fight for a good pronunciation with pin yin.
About the extra software, don't you use one to write chinese? Does it mean Chinese have to stop writing with characters?
I think it's a little sacrifice for a lot of pleasure. Besides, these sotwares are free and easy to install.

Else, congratulations for your website and you "activism" in the use of Taiwanese .