Hi, Rini!
There's a good tutorial with soundfiles at:
http://www.hqpin.com/Eta[1a].htm
Each page there begins with a practice session for the seven tones of Hokkien and then introduces basic sentence patterns, just like what you had asked for. Have fun!
Regards,
Aurelio
[%sig%]
About "bochap"
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Sim
Re: About "bochap"
Hi Aurelio,
I think the trick with <> to make a link clickable only works if you leave out the http://
Interesting that the page says: "i si siang" (=who is he/she). I only know "i1 si3 cui7-cui7".
This can be used in other contexts as well: "cui7-cui7 be1 khi3" (=who wants to go?).
And btw, "be1" is the sandhi informal form of "bueh4" (= to want). The answer to this question has to be "i1 bueh4", never "i1 be1" or "i1 be4" or even "i1 beh4".
[%sig%]
I think the trick with <> to make a link clickable only works if you leave out the http://
Interesting that the page says: "i si siang" (=who is he/she). I only know "i1 si3 cui7-cui7".
This can be used in other contexts as well: "cui7-cui7 be1 khi3" (=who wants to go?).
And btw, "be1" is the sandhi informal form of "bueh4" (= to want). The answer to this question has to be "i1 bueh4", never "i1 be1" or "i1 be4" or even "i1 beh4".
[%sig%]
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Aurelio
Re: About "bochap"
Hi Sim,
didn't know siang5, either (which doesn't mean much). But my 廈門方言詞典 has it:
[倽] siang5 誰, "啥人 sia-lang5" 的合音: 倽來咯? 伊是倽? 倽的物體? "倽"的同義詞常見的有"是誰" tsi tsui [<si sui]", "甚物人 simmihlang", ＂底人 tilang (或合音 tiang/)"
[倽] siang5 = "who", contracted form of "sia-lang", exx.: siang5 lai5 lo? i7 si3 siang5? siang5 e7 mihthe2?" Frequent synonyms of 倽 are "tsi tsui", "simmihlang", "tilang" (or its contracted form "tiang")
What's 物體 (mihthe2)? I guess it's the same as 物件 mihkia" (things)?
I like that website - it's the only one I'm aware of that actually has soundfiles. Of course you're right, one can't learn a language on the internet. But maybe one can learn enough to see whether one will have the stamina to go through with it ...
Thanks for the remark on links. Let's see whether this works: <www.chinalanguage.com>
Regards,
Aurelio
[%sig%]
didn't know siang5, either (which doesn't mean much). But my 廈門方言詞典 has it:
[倽] siang5 誰, "啥人 sia-lang5" 的合音: 倽來咯? 伊是倽? 倽的物體? "倽"的同義詞常見的有"是誰" tsi tsui [<si sui]", "甚物人 simmihlang", ＂底人 tilang (或合音 tiang/)"
[倽] siang5 = "who", contracted form of "sia-lang", exx.: siang5 lai5 lo? i7 si3 siang5? siang5 e7 mihthe2?" Frequent synonyms of 倽 are "tsi tsui", "simmihlang", "tilang" (or its contracted form "tiang")
What's 物體 (mihthe2)? I guess it's the same as 物件 mihkia" (things)?
I like that website - it's the only one I'm aware of that actually has soundfiles. Of course you're right, one can't learn a language on the internet. But maybe one can learn enough to see whether one will have the stamina to go through with it ...
Thanks for the remark on links. Let's see whether this works: <www.chinalanguage.com>
Regards,
Aurelio
[%sig%]
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Aurelio
Re: About "bochap"
Nope, it doesn't. Any ideas? Hope you can at least see the 倽 character - it comes up in my preview but in the editor window it's just a string of numbers.
Regards,
Aurelio
Regards,
Aurelio
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Sim
Re: About "bochap"
>> What's 物體 (mihthe2)? I guess it's the same as 物件 mihkia" (things)?
Hi Aurelio,
I don't know "mih-the2" either. I say "mi4-kia*3", i.e. with nasalization, but perhaps that is purely influenced by the preceding m-.
Interesting to note a phonological process at work here. I'm quite aware that the "mi4-" (with sandhi) in "mi4-kia*3" is actually "mih8", meaning "things", but in normal speech, the -h is dropped.
I've noticed this as a general rule: "In compounds, a non-final syllable having a glottal stop at the end may drop the glottal stop".
This is most common in compound nouns:
thih4 (iron) .................. -> thi8-teng1 (nail)
peh4 (eight) .................. -> pe8-cap1 (eighty)
ah4 (duck) .................... -> a8-nui7 / (ah8-nui7) (duck's egg)
pah4 (hundred) ................ -> pa8-ban3 / pah8-ban3 (million)
bah4 (meat) ................... -> ba8-hu2 (a form of dried meat, looks like wool)
toh4 (table) .................. -> to8-teng2 / toh8-teng2 (table(-top))
oh8 (school, lesson, learn) ... -> o4-teng5 / (oh4-teng5 (school)
gueh8 (moon) .................. -> (gue4-niau5) / gueh4-niau5 (moon)
ioh8 (waist?) ................. -> io4-ci2 / (oih4-ci2) (kidney)
It applies less to verbs :
(Notice that the verb and following syllable are considered to be 'close enough' to one another for tone-sandhi to take place)
tih4 (to drip) ................ -> tih8-cui2 (to drip water), not ti8-cui2
thiah4 (to tear) .............. -> thiah8-pO3 (to tear cloth), not tia8-pO3
sah8 (to boil) ................ -> sah4-nui7 (to boil eggs), not sa4-nui7
ciah8 (to eat) ................ -> ciah4-chai3 (to eat vegetables, to be vegetarian), not cia4-chai3
liah8 (to catch) .............. -> liah4-chat8 (to catch thieves), not liah-chat8
However, it does apply in certain verb compounds:
puah8 (to fall) -> pua4-to2 / puah4-to2 (to fall down)
puah8 (to gamble) -> pua4-kiau2 / (puah4-kiau2) (to gamble)
My impression is that the dropping of the -h is related to how 'tightly coupled' the compound is:
a) Noun compounds are usually tightly coupled, so they almost always have dropping (in some cases non-dropping would sound very strange to me, even in slow speech).
b) A few verb compounds are also quite tightly coupled, so dropping is normal, almost obligatory.
c) Most verb compounds are not that tightly coupled, so dropping doesn't occur.
[%sig%]
Hi Aurelio,
I don't know "mih-the2" either. I say "mi4-kia*3", i.e. with nasalization, but perhaps that is purely influenced by the preceding m-.
Interesting to note a phonological process at work here. I'm quite aware that the "mi4-" (with sandhi) in "mi4-kia*3" is actually "mih8", meaning "things", but in normal speech, the -h is dropped.
I've noticed this as a general rule: "In compounds, a non-final syllable having a glottal stop at the end may drop the glottal stop".
This is most common in compound nouns:
thih4 (iron) .................. -> thi8-teng1 (nail)
peh4 (eight) .................. -> pe8-cap1 (eighty)
ah4 (duck) .................... -> a8-nui7 / (ah8-nui7) (duck's egg)
pah4 (hundred) ................ -> pa8-ban3 / pah8-ban3 (million)
bah4 (meat) ................... -> ba8-hu2 (a form of dried meat, looks like wool)
toh4 (table) .................. -> to8-teng2 / toh8-teng2 (table(-top))
oh8 (school, lesson, learn) ... -> o4-teng5 / (oh4-teng5 (school)
gueh8 (moon) .................. -> (gue4-niau5) / gueh4-niau5 (moon)
ioh8 (waist?) ................. -> io4-ci2 / (oih4-ci2) (kidney)
It applies less to verbs :
(Notice that the verb and following syllable are considered to be 'close enough' to one another for tone-sandhi to take place)
tih4 (to drip) ................ -> tih8-cui2 (to drip water), not ti8-cui2
thiah4 (to tear) .............. -> thiah8-pO3 (to tear cloth), not tia8-pO3
sah8 (to boil) ................ -> sah4-nui7 (to boil eggs), not sa4-nui7
ciah8 (to eat) ................ -> ciah4-chai3 (to eat vegetables, to be vegetarian), not cia4-chai3
liah8 (to catch) .............. -> liah4-chat8 (to catch thieves), not liah-chat8
However, it does apply in certain verb compounds:
puah8 (to fall) -> pua4-to2 / puah4-to2 (to fall down)
puah8 (to gamble) -> pua4-kiau2 / (puah4-kiau2) (to gamble)
My impression is that the dropping of the -h is related to how 'tightly coupled' the compound is:
a) Noun compounds are usually tightly coupled, so they almost always have dropping (in some cases non-dropping would sound very strange to me, even in slow speech).
b) A few verb compounds are also quite tightly coupled, so dropping is normal, almost obligatory.
c) Most verb compounds are not that tightly coupled, so dropping doesn't occur.
[%sig%]
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Niuc
Re: About "bochap"
Hi Sim & Aurelio
I am not familiar with the term 物體 (mi8 the2 or but8 the2??) too but 倽 'siang5'/'sang5' indeed is the very word for "who" in our accent, beside 甚物人 'sim3 mi8 lang5'. I didn't know about 是誰 'ci7 cui7' until I read the Amoy Romanized Bible. 底人 'tiang5' is found in 金門 Kim-mng accent.
Personally I think that glottal stop is a feature of the tones (4th & 8th) than of the sound, at least for my accent. As I mentioned in another thread, in my accent the 2nd & 4th tones are alike (except for those ending with -p,-t,-k that are always 4th). Hence 死 'si2' and 閃 'si4' sound alike and undistinguishable. However, they differ in sandhi forms, 2nd to another new tone (mix of 7th & 1st), 4th to 8th. I do not aware of the difference between 'si2' and 'si4' in non-sandhi, that's why I don't write 'sih4'. This may be not true for other accents.
[%sig%]
I am not familiar with the term 物體 (mi8 the2 or but8 the2??) too but 倽 'siang5'/'sang5' indeed is the very word for "who" in our accent, beside 甚物人 'sim3 mi8 lang5'. I didn't know about 是誰 'ci7 cui7' until I read the Amoy Romanized Bible. 底人 'tiang5' is found in 金門 Kim-mng accent.
Personally I think that glottal stop is a feature of the tones (4th & 8th) than of the sound, at least for my accent. As I mentioned in another thread, in my accent the 2nd & 4th tones are alike (except for those ending with -p,-t,-k that are always 4th). Hence 死 'si2' and 閃 'si4' sound alike and undistinguishable. However, they differ in sandhi forms, 2nd to another new tone (mix of 7th & 1st), 4th to 8th. I do not aware of the difference between 'si2' and 'si4' in non-sandhi, that's why I don't write 'sih4'. This may be not true for other accents.
[%sig%]
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Aurelio
Re: About "bochap"
Hi!
Talking about phonetics: Yes, 件 kiaⁿ is always nasalized (cf. jian4 in Mandarin), {"} was supposed to be the nasalization. Hm, looks like that is hard to see. Better like this [ⁿ] ?
Regards,
Aurelio
[%sig%]
Talking about phonetics: Yes, 件 kiaⁿ is always nasalized (cf. jian4 in Mandarin), {"} was supposed to be the nasalization. Hm, looks like that is hard to see. Better like this [ⁿ]
?Regards,
Aurelio
[%sig%]