Hokkien Dialect Radio

[Ehlam Chua]

It's actually been combined two or more syllables.
For instance, "tomorrow" in Minnan we express by "明仔早"
And for "yesterday", it's "昨昏", a nasalized vowel.

[Sim]

Hi Ehlam,

Thanks for your posts.

May I request that you also post some pronunciations, because I can't read Chinese characters (sorry!).

Here are some tips on the less obvious points:

1. If you want to distinguish the "o"-sound in (English) "go" from the "o"-sound in (English) "got" then you can write the former as "o" and the latter as " o' " or "O".

For example, in my form of Hokkien "o" (oyster) vs. "O" (yam, or some sort of swollen root - maybe it's only called a yam in Malaysian English). Or a better example is "ho" (good) vs. "hO" (tiger).

2. Nasals can be marked either "*" or "~".

For example, in my form of Hokkien, to boil water is "hia* kun cui" or "hia~ kun cui". Another example: "kia" (to send - a letter) vs. "kia*" (mirror).

3. Glottal stop is marked by -h.

For example: "ka" (to bite) vs. "kah" (to teach). Or "lak" (six) vs. "lah" (wax).

4. The non-aspirated vs. aspirated affricate: "c-" vs. "ch" or "ch-" vs. "chh" (personally I prefer "c-" vs. "ch").

For example: "cun" (to shiver) vs. "chun" (chinese inch). Or "ca" (early) vs "cha" (to fry vegetables in a wok).

Hope this helps.

Sim.

[%sig%]

[yisheng]

Hi ehlam,

basically, the minnan dialect spoken in Penang and most of northern Malaysia is very similar to the chiangchiu dialect or what is spoken in yi lan in Taiwan. However, there are some minor differences.

what i can recall is that words like 兵, 燈, 証 (soldier, lamp, proof) in chiangchiu accent would have the -ing sound ending but in Penang, we speak it with a -eng ending. Also, for words like 病, 平, 爭 (sickness, level, fight or argue) the *E is not as pronounced as in chiangchiu. Or you can say that we do not open our mouth as wide when we say the words when compared to people in chiangchiu.

Also, there are minor chuanchiu influences. For instance, the word 關. I pronounce it as *kuai following the chuanchiu way instead of *kua. The only instance I pronounce it as *kua is when I say 關帝爺 (*kua3 de2 ia5).

I have been told that there are minor tonal differences especially in the 陽入 or 8th tone but I'm still not very sure about that. And of course, the borrowed Malay words which Sim has posted.

yisheng

[Sim]

Yisheng,

Thanks for your additional information.

Yes, I can confirm that soldier is "peng" and lamp is "teng" where the -e- is IPA [e], which sounds approximately like the first part of -ay, as in English "say", "day", "ray".

I don't know the word for "proof", so I can't confirm that one, but if it rhymes with soldier and lamp, then you are probably right.

[ In my grandmother's (Amoy-like) variant, they would be "pi@ng", "ti@ng", where "@" = schwa, as the "e" in "item" or "the". ]

Unfortunately, you only gave characters, and no transcription for sickness, level, fight/argue (again, sorry I can't read characters), so I'm not sure which words you mean. If I may be allowed to make a guess (because your first set rhymed), perhaps you mean "pE*", "pE*" (dfferent tone), "cE*".

If you do mean these 3 words, then I *do* in fact pronounce them very open (though of course, I can't say how open compared to Chiangchiu people). For "argue", I say "sio cE*".

[ In my grandmother's (Amoy-like) variant, these words would be "pi*", "pi*" (different tone), "siu(?*) ci*". ]

What is your background Yisheng? Where do you come from, where did you grow up etc...?

Sim.

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[Andrew Yong]

>Also, there are minor chuanchiu influences. For instance, the word 關. I >pronounce it as *kuai following the chuanchiu way instead of *kua. The >only instance I pronounce it as *kua is when I say 關帝爺 (*kua3 de2 ia5).

I've only ever used kham3.


andrew

[yisheng]

Hi Andrew,

kham3 is ? or cover. 關 as in lock up. As in the phrase which parents use to threaten their children when they are naughty, "ma2 ta5 liah8 lu2 ki1 *kuai1". (I don't know whether the tones are correct)

Ya, it is true that we use kham3 as in kham1 mui5 as opposed to *kuai3 mng5, which is what people in Southern Malaysia and Singapore say.

Sim,

"Proof" as in cheng1 beng5. The cheng1 was the word I was referring to. You guessed correctly regarding the second set of characters. I have not really heard anyone from chiangchiu pronounce these words so I cannot give a definite answer on how they are pronounced there.

I'm originally from Air Itam, Penang. My family moved over to Johor Bahru when I was 9. I'm currently a Uni student in Singapore. I grew up in JB but as nearly all of my relatives are in Penang, I go back at least once a year.

[hong]

andrew,
Some chang minnan can say lu but the rest chuan minnan in whole malaysia -70% must say lue.People in Ku kong si and chew sean kew in Penang must say lu because they are chang minnan.
Sim,
I have to say your mandarin let you down about hearing minnan.Chinese educated know what i mean by kengcatkek(police station),kaisi(start),pankongsit(office),huchet(resposible) but not eng educated minnan in malaysia.
In malaysia minnan sinbun mandarin-like words are been used in minnan sound-nidong(child)tionghu(husband)yunihue(kindergarden)chuzu(wife)korni(orphan).Eng educated minnan people will not understand it.
Some malay words are Sanskrit tathapi for tetapi,rasa,sukha for suka ,maybe puna for pun (again)also.
there is a book- guide to penang hokkien diclect in 2001 but i cannot get a copy of it.
The most important for penang and north malaysia minna is to change from chang to chuan minnan if their grandfather are from chuan chew.No malay and eng word ,please.

[wei]

you can get the penang hokkien book in a book shop in 2nd or 3rd floor of Gama department store...

[Andrew Yong]

Yes I agree that knowing Mandarin would help a lot. However, I wonder sometimes if there isn't a lot of specifically Mandarin influence in a lot of e.g. Taiwanese speech, to the same extent that Straits Hokkien is influenced by Malay. Hopefully spending 3 months in Beijing (Sept-Dec) will improve my Guoyu sufficiently.

I think the main difficulty is the vocabulary. It is easy enough to get used to the different pronunciation.

Re the Penang hokkien book: what is its title?

Is there a Hokkien word that is exactly equivalent to xi3huan1? The only Hokkien words I know have a slightly different meaning.

andrew

[hong]

andrew,
I have heard taiwanese video said by a man to a girl =ka hi last week.Please don't have the wrong view of thinking staying in beijing will be helpful to your putonghua because beijinghua and putonghua are not the same.Vocabulary and sound are not the same.