Hi all,
In the Wiki Encyclopedia (reference given by Hong, I think), there is a table showing the sandhi rules for Hokkien.
Isolation ... Sandhi
Tone ........ Tone
5 ........... 7
7 ........... 3
3 ........... 2 *
2 ........... 1
1 ........... 7
8 & not -h .. 4
4 & not -h .. 8
8 & -h ...... 3
4 & -h ...... 2 *
Now, most of the rules correspond to what I expected, but the two that I've marked with an "*" don't match anything I know.
Can anyone give examples of words conforming to these two rules? If possible, I'd appreciate very *simple* examples, because my vocabulary is so limited. It would be more helpful for me if they were words I already know. Of course, I realise that this is a bit of a strange request, because there's no way of anyone knowing which words I *do* know, but I suppose, the simpler a word is, the more likely I am to know it. Words like: "mathematics", "history", "election", "logical", "architecture" I am extremely unlikely to know. Words like: "teacher", "forest", "stomach ache" I'm more likely to know.
Thanks in advance,
Sim.
[%sig%]
Tone Sandhi
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Andrew Yong
Re: Tone Sandhi
3->2 e.g. chhau3-bi7, smelly
In another thread you said that in Penang Hokkien 3 in sandhi form sounds a bit more like 1. I agree to some extent, but my hearing may be wrong.
4->2 e.g. bah4-kut4, pork bones
I think in Penang Hokkien -h4 in sandhi form is more like 8 than 2. There is simply not the time for the high falling tone.
andrew
In another thread you said that in Penang Hokkien 3 in sandhi form sounds a bit more like 1. I agree to some extent, but my hearing may be wrong.
4->2 e.g. bah4-kut4, pork bones
I think in Penang Hokkien -h4 in sandhi form is more like 8 than 2. There is simply not the time for the high falling tone.
andrew
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Sim
Re: Tone Sandhi
Thank you Andrew. Your comments about these two examples definitely correspond to my perception of the way I speak Penang Hokkien.
I say: chau1-bi7 and ba8-kut4.
As I observed in some other posting, I seem to often drop -h in non-final syllables of compounds, so I never say bah-kut, always ba-kut.
P.S. The dish I would pronounce: ba8-kut8-tE5 (literally pork bone tea).
Sim.
I say: chau1-bi7 and ba8-kut4.
As I observed in some other posting, I seem to often drop -h in non-final syllables of compounds, so I never say bah-kut, always ba-kut.
P.S. The dish I would pronounce: ba8-kut8-tE5 (literally pork bone tea).
Sim.
Re: Tone Sandhi
Hi!
How do the Hokkien tones work? Does 3 correspond to the 3rd tone of Mandarin as well? How many tones are there? I speak Hokkien fluently and I notice that we have tones different from Mandarin in a way that the 4th tone of mandarin can be divided into musical scales in Hokkien. Lets say a word in the 're' note and the other in the 'fa' note.
Im really new to the transcription of Hokkien. What are isolation and sandhi tones?
Thanks!
stifven
How do the Hokkien tones work? Does 3 correspond to the 3rd tone of Mandarin as well? How many tones are there? I speak Hokkien fluently and I notice that we have tones different from Mandarin in a way that the 4th tone of mandarin can be divided into musical scales in Hokkien. Lets say a word in the 're' note and the other in the 'fa' note.
Im really new to the transcription of Hokkien. What are isolation and sandhi tones?
Thanks!
stifven
-
Sim
Re: Tone Sandhi
Hi Stifven,
>> Does 3 correspond to the 3rd tone of Mandarin as well? -> generally NO
>> How many tones are there? -> 7
>> How do the Hokkien tones work? -> Here is an introduction to the 4 Middle Chinese tones and the fact that they split:
http://assets.cambridge.org/0521652723/ ... 2723WS.pdf
Each of the 4 tones split into 2, resulting in 8 tones. These are traditionally
numbered 1-8 (or sometimes 1a = 1, 1b = 2, 2a = 3, 2b = 4, ..., 4a = 7, 4b =
.
In different dialects different tones then merged (i.e. came to have the same contour). So the 4 Middle Chinese tones also don't correspond in a regular way to the 4 modern standard Mandarin tones.
If we use I, II, III, IV for the modern standard Mandarin tones (to avoid
confusion of numbers), then I believe the relationship is:
... I ... 1
... II .. 2
... III . 3
... IV .. 5
Glossika Language Net (http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/index.htm ) gives quite a bit of information on these 8 split tones. Click on "Tones in Chinese Dialects" and then select any individual dialect.
It is important to realise that each of these 8 tones is actually an "abstraction". In any particular dialect, they will have a different contour. So, even in the various varieties of the *same* dialect, the contours will be slightly different. e.g. Hokkien has 7 of the 8 split tones, but different "accents" of Hokkien may realise tone 3 (slightly) differently. This is part of what makes the different accents of Hokkien sound different, even aside from actual vowel or consonant differences.
You can see this illustrated on Glossika Language Net, where the various tone contours are given (for example) for the 4 modern standard Mandarin tones, for many different cities and regions.
[ I am slowly coming to the conclusion that my version of Penang Hokkien actually only has 4 distinct tone contours. This is in fact what I've always felt, and in the beginning I had a hard time understanding all the people in this forum (and lots of famous Chinese dialectologists as well!) who kept saying that Hokkien has 7 tones!
In another posting (I'm afraid it's going to be a very long one, which is why I've put off writing it!), I'll set out my (personal) analysis of my variant of Penang Hokkien tone contours. ]
Anyway, to move on... Somewhere else on this forum, the following table has been posted. It's a useful way of remembering which tone is which.
Tone Animal
1 .. lion sai1
2 .. tiger hoo2 [ also written hO or ho. or ho`, the open-o, [ O ] in ASCII IPA ]
3 .. rabbit thoo3 [ thO/tho` ]
4 .. duck ah4
5 .. cow gu5
6 .. horse be2 (tone6 and tone2 are the same)
7 .. elephant chhiu*7 [ also written chiu*, for those who prefer c/ch to ch/chh ]
8 .. deer look8 [ lOk/lo`k ]
>> What are isolation and sandhi tones?
"Tone sandhi" is a phenomenon known in many tonal languages. The effect of tone sandhi is that words pronounced in isolation have a different tone from when they are in a compound.
It happens quite a lot in Hokkien. In fact, in Hokkien, every syllable in a compound word or tightly connected phrase gets a new tone except for the last syllable.
For example:
... "tu1" (pig) becomes "tu7-bah4" (pig meat, pork)
... "ho2" (good) becomes "ho1-ciah8" (good to eat, delicious)
... "ciah8" (eat) becomes "cia(h)3-pui*7" (eat rice)
In fact, it builds up in chains:
"hue2" (fire) -> "hue1-chia1" (fire car = train) -> "hue1-chia7-lO7" (train road = railroad track).
I've always thought this was horrendous for foreigners to learn (Aurelio, are you still reading these days???).
It took me about 1 year of reading this forum to master the 7 Hokkien tones (and even now, I have a lot of trouble with 3 and 7). In the beginning I just wrote the closest Mandarin equivalent (but you have to tell people that it's Mandarin tone numbers you're using). However, I assure you it's worth it, making the effort to learn them, because then you can understand more precisely what the other (more expert people) on this forum are talking about, and you can communicate with them in terminology which is standardized and accepted by the Hokkien linguistic community.
BTW, apparently the Wu-dialects (of which Shanghainese is one of the best known examples) are supposed to have the most complex sandhi rules of all the Chinese languages/dialects. These are dependent on the particular tones of the 2 syllables being combined, and in some cases even the particular tones of 3 syllables.
I read somewhere that Wu sandhi is explained in complex *tables* which give these combinations. e.g.
... 1+3 (non-sandhi) -> 2,5
... 2+3 (non-sandhi) -> 1,4
... 1+4 (non-sandhi) -> 3,4
... 2+4 (non-sandhi) -> 3,3
etc.
... 1+3+1 (non-sandhi) -> 2,2,1
... 1+3+2 (non-sandhi) -> 3,4,5
Of course, I don't know any Wu dialects, so these are NOT the values which apply. They are just ones I made up to illustrate the *nature* and *complexity* of Wu sandhi. And of course, I may be exaggerating. Perhaps the combinations aren't as complex as my pseudo-example. What I *have* read is, in any case, that Wu sandhi is considerably more complex than Hokkien sandhi, which is already reasonably complex compared to standard Mandarin, where the only commonly mentioned sandhi rule is 3+3 -> 2,3. [ Actually I checked with a friend who studies these things, and he says that even in Mandarin, there are supposed to be 2- and 3-syllable combination, context-sensitive sandhi rules, but no one is quite sure what they are, not even the linguists, which is why only the 3+3 rule gets mentioned ! ]
[%sig%]
>> Does 3 correspond to the 3rd tone of Mandarin as well? -> generally NO
>> How many tones are there? -> 7
>> How do the Hokkien tones work? -> Here is an introduction to the 4 Middle Chinese tones and the fact that they split:
http://assets.cambridge.org/0521652723/ ... 2723WS.pdf
Each of the 4 tones split into 2, resulting in 8 tones. These are traditionally
numbered 1-8 (or sometimes 1a = 1, 1b = 2, 2a = 3, 2b = 4, ..., 4a = 7, 4b =
. In different dialects different tones then merged (i.e. came to have the same contour). So the 4 Middle Chinese tones also don't correspond in a regular way to the 4 modern standard Mandarin tones.
If we use I, II, III, IV for the modern standard Mandarin tones (to avoid
confusion of numbers), then I believe the relationship is:
... I ... 1
... II .. 2
... III . 3
... IV .. 5
Glossika Language Net (http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/index.htm ) gives quite a bit of information on these 8 split tones. Click on "Tones in Chinese Dialects" and then select any individual dialect.
It is important to realise that each of these 8 tones is actually an "abstraction". In any particular dialect, they will have a different contour. So, even in the various varieties of the *same* dialect, the contours will be slightly different. e.g. Hokkien has 7 of the 8 split tones, but different "accents" of Hokkien may realise tone 3 (slightly) differently. This is part of what makes the different accents of Hokkien sound different, even aside from actual vowel or consonant differences.
You can see this illustrated on Glossika Language Net, where the various tone contours are given (for example) for the 4 modern standard Mandarin tones, for many different cities and regions.
[ I am slowly coming to the conclusion that my version of Penang Hokkien actually only has 4 distinct tone contours. This is in fact what I've always felt, and in the beginning I had a hard time understanding all the people in this forum (and lots of famous Chinese dialectologists as well!) who kept saying that Hokkien has 7 tones!
In another posting (I'm afraid it's going to be a very long one, which is why I've put off writing it!), I'll set out my (personal) analysis of my variant of Penang Hokkien tone contours. ]
Anyway, to move on... Somewhere else on this forum, the following table has been posted. It's a useful way of remembering which tone is which.
Tone Animal
1 .. lion sai1
2 .. tiger hoo2 [ also written hO or ho. or ho`, the open-o, [ O ] in ASCII IPA ]
3 .. rabbit thoo3 [ thO/tho` ]
4 .. duck ah4
5 .. cow gu5
6 .. horse be2 (tone6 and tone2 are the same)
7 .. elephant chhiu*7 [ also written chiu*, for those who prefer c/ch to ch/chh ]
8 .. deer look8 [ lOk/lo`k ]
>> What are isolation and sandhi tones?
"Tone sandhi" is a phenomenon known in many tonal languages. The effect of tone sandhi is that words pronounced in isolation have a different tone from when they are in a compound.
It happens quite a lot in Hokkien. In fact, in Hokkien, every syllable in a compound word or tightly connected phrase gets a new tone except for the last syllable.
For example:
... "tu1" (pig) becomes "tu7-bah4" (pig meat, pork)
... "ho2" (good) becomes "ho1-ciah8" (good to eat, delicious)
... "ciah8" (eat) becomes "cia(h)3-pui*7" (eat rice)
In fact, it builds up in chains:
"hue2" (fire) -> "hue1-chia1" (fire car = train) -> "hue1-chia7-lO7" (train road = railroad track).
I've always thought this was horrendous for foreigners to learn (Aurelio, are you still reading these days???).
It took me about 1 year of reading this forum to master the 7 Hokkien tones (and even now, I have a lot of trouble with 3 and 7). In the beginning I just wrote the closest Mandarin equivalent (but you have to tell people that it's Mandarin tone numbers you're using). However, I assure you it's worth it, making the effort to learn them, because then you can understand more precisely what the other (more expert people) on this forum are talking about, and you can communicate with them in terminology which is standardized and accepted by the Hokkien linguistic community.
BTW, apparently the Wu-dialects (of which Shanghainese is one of the best known examples) are supposed to have the most complex sandhi rules of all the Chinese languages/dialects. These are dependent on the particular tones of the 2 syllables being combined, and in some cases even the particular tones of 3 syllables.
I read somewhere that Wu sandhi is explained in complex *tables* which give these combinations. e.g.
... 1+3 (non-sandhi) -> 2,5
... 2+3 (non-sandhi) -> 1,4
... 1+4 (non-sandhi) -> 3,4
... 2+4 (non-sandhi) -> 3,3
etc.
... 1+3+1 (non-sandhi) -> 2,2,1
... 1+3+2 (non-sandhi) -> 3,4,5
Of course, I don't know any Wu dialects, so these are NOT the values which apply. They are just ones I made up to illustrate the *nature* and *complexity* of Wu sandhi. And of course, I may be exaggerating. Perhaps the combinations aren't as complex as my pseudo-example. What I *have* read is, in any case, that Wu sandhi is considerably more complex than Hokkien sandhi, which is already reasonably complex compared to standard Mandarin, where the only commonly mentioned sandhi rule is 3+3 -> 2,3. [ Actually I checked with a friend who studies these things, and he says that even in Mandarin, there are supposed to be 2- and 3-syllable combination, context-sensitive sandhi rules, but no one is quite sure what they are, not even the linguists, which is why only the 3+3 rule gets mentioned ! ]
[%sig%]
Re: Tone Sandhi
Sim,
Thank you very much for explaining Tone Sandhi and for those links.
I'll try my best digesting all those informations on tones...ASAP.. hehe
> Tone Animal
> 1 .. lion sai1
> 2 .. tiger hoo2 [ also written hO or ho. or ho`, the open-o, [ O ] in ASCII IPA ]
> 3 .. rabbit thoo3 [ thO/tho` ]
> 4 .. duck ah4
> 5 .. cow gu5
> 6 .. horse be2 (tone6 and tone2 are the same)
> 7 .. elephant chhiu*7 [ also written chiu*, for those who prefer c/ch to ch/chh ]
> 8 .. deer look8 [ lOk/lo`k ]
Our tones for elephant (chiu) and lion (sai) are just the same. Im not sure if Penang and Manila variants also differ in their tones, but from the example, I cant notice a pattern from the 8 tones..
Using mandarin tones, we pronounce
tiger (ho), horse (be) as 1st tone
elephant (chiu), lion (sai) as somewhat like the 1st tone
deer (lok) as 2nd tone
cow (gu) as 3rd
rabbit (thoo) as 4th
duck (ah) as 5th
I think our tones are then arranged as 2, 6, 1, 7, 8, 5, 3, 4 from the example you've given.
Sim, do Penang and Manila tones really differ that much?
Cheers!
Thank you very much for explaining Tone Sandhi and for those links.
I'll try my best digesting all those informations on tones...ASAP.. hehe
> Tone Animal
> 1 .. lion sai1
> 2 .. tiger hoo2 [ also written hO or ho. or ho`, the open-o, [ O ] in ASCII IPA ]
> 3 .. rabbit thoo3 [ thO/tho` ]
> 4 .. duck ah4
> 5 .. cow gu5
> 6 .. horse be2 (tone6 and tone2 are the same)
> 7 .. elephant chhiu*7 [ also written chiu*, for those who prefer c/ch to ch/chh ]
> 8 .. deer look8 [ lOk/lo`k ]
Our tones for elephant (chiu) and lion (sai) are just the same. Im not sure if Penang and Manila variants also differ in their tones, but from the example, I cant notice a pattern from the 8 tones..
Using mandarin tones, we pronounce
tiger (ho), horse (be) as 1st tone
elephant (chiu), lion (sai) as somewhat like the 1st tone
deer (lok) as 2nd tone
cow (gu) as 3rd
rabbit (thoo) as 4th
duck (ah) as 5th
I think our tones are then arranged as 2, 6, 1, 7, 8, 5, 3, 4 from the example you've given.
Sim, do Penang and Manila tones really differ that much?
Cheers!
-
Sim
Re: Tone Sandhi
Stifven,
Are you using Mandarin tones? I'm a bit puzzled by:
>> duck (ah) as 5th
because Mandarin doesn't have a 5th tone, as far as I know.
In my variant "chiau*" (elephant) and "sai" (lion) definitely don't have the same tone contour.
My "mapping" of Penang Hokkien tones to Mandarin tones is:
H .. M
1 .. 1
2 .. 4
3 .. 3
4 .. 3
5 .. 2
[ ]
7 .. 3
8 .. 1
In fact, what I do when I write Hokkien is that I say my 4 Mandarin tones in my head until I find the one which matches the Hokkien word I'm working with:
a) If it's M4, then I can write straightaway H2.
b) If it's M2, then I can write straightaway H5.
c) If it's M1 without a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I write H1.
d) If it's M1 with a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I write H8.
e) If it's M3 with a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I write H4.
f) If it's M3 without a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I check whether if has a different sandhi tone:
... #) If it doesn't then it's H7
... #) If it does, then it's H3
I don't have the sandhi rules: H3 -> H2 and H4 & -h -> H2. Instead I have H3 -> H1, and H4 & -h -> H1.
This makes my sandhi rules actually very easy, when written with Mandarin tones:
... M1, M2 -> M3
... M3, M4 -> M1 (with some exceptions, they being M3 -> M3 (i.e. no change). These correspond to the H7.
Which is why I was also very puzzled for years that Chinese linguists kept claiming that Hokkien sandhi rules were rather complex.
Sim
BTW, I feel it would be more accurate to write "chiu*" instead of just "chiu" for "elephant". The "*" represents the nasalized vowel. Otherwise, it looks like "tree". The distinction between nasalized vowel and non-nasalized vowel is phonemic in Hokkien, i.e. distinguishes meaning, so one looses a lot of information if one doesn't write it.
e.g.
i5 (aunt) vs. i*5 (round)
pi2 (to point, compare) vs. pi*2 (flat)
pE5 (to scratch) vs. pE*5 (parallel, level, even)
ia5 (coconut) vs. ia*5 (to win)
hia1 (brother) vs. hia*1 (strange smell?)
ua7 (word, language) vs. ua*7 (late; to change)
ua2 (close by) vs. ua*2 (bowl)
kua1 (melon) vs. kua*1 (judge; liver)
etc.
[%sig%]
Are you using Mandarin tones? I'm a bit puzzled by:
>> duck (ah) as 5th
because Mandarin doesn't have a 5th tone, as far as I know.
In my variant "chiau*" (elephant) and "sai" (lion) definitely don't have the same tone contour.
My "mapping" of Penang Hokkien tones to Mandarin tones is:
H .. M
1 .. 1
2 .. 4
3 .. 3
4 .. 3
5 .. 2
[ ]
7 .. 3
8 .. 1
In fact, what I do when I write Hokkien is that I say my 4 Mandarin tones in my head until I find the one which matches the Hokkien word I'm working with:
a) If it's M4, then I can write straightaway H2.
b) If it's M2, then I can write straightaway H5.
c) If it's M1 without a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I write H1.
d) If it's M1 with a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I write H8.
e) If it's M3 with a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I write H4.
f) If it's M3 without a final -p, -t, -k, -h, then I check whether if has a different sandhi tone:
... #) If it doesn't then it's H7
... #) If it does, then it's H3
I don't have the sandhi rules: H3 -> H2 and H4 & -h -> H2. Instead I have H3 -> H1, and H4 & -h -> H1.
This makes my sandhi rules actually very easy, when written with Mandarin tones:
... M1, M2 -> M3
... M3, M4 -> M1 (with some exceptions, they being M3 -> M3 (i.e. no change). These correspond to the H7.
Which is why I was also very puzzled for years that Chinese linguists kept claiming that Hokkien sandhi rules were rather complex.
Sim
BTW, I feel it would be more accurate to write "chiu*" instead of just "chiu" for "elephant". The "*" represents the nasalized vowel. Otherwise, it looks like "tree". The distinction between nasalized vowel and non-nasalized vowel is phonemic in Hokkien, i.e. distinguishes meaning, so one looses a lot of information if one doesn't write it.
e.g.
i5 (aunt) vs. i*5 (round)
pi2 (to point, compare) vs. pi*2 (flat)
pE5 (to scratch) vs. pE*5 (parallel, level, even)
ia5 (coconut) vs. ia*5 (to win)
hia1 (brother) vs. hia*1 (strange smell?)
ua7 (word, language) vs. ua*7 (late; to change)
ua2 (close by) vs. ua*2 (bowl)
kua1 (melon) vs. kua*1 (judge; liver)
etc.
[%sig%]
-
Andrew Yong
Re: Tone Sandhi
Another way of looking at it:
The four classes of tones are
1 平 ping
2 上 shang
3 去 qu
4 入 ru
Each, apart from 上 are divided into 陰 yin (1-4) and 陽 yang (5-8).
The two Hokkien 平 tones are identical to the Mandarin 平 tones.
Thus 新 xin1 (new), is the same tone as 新 sin1 in Hokkien.
Thus 門 men2 (door) is the same tone as 門 mng5 in Hokkien, but the numbering obscures the identity.
The Hokkien 上 tone sounds something like a Mandarin 去 tone.
The Hokkien 去 tone sounds something like a Mandarin 上 tone.
This is a simplification, since in standard Hokkien there are two 去 tones, which are both slightly different from the Mandarin 上 tone.
Thus 虎 hu3 (tiger) contrasts with 虎 hO2 (tiger)
Thus 兔 tu4 (rabbit) contrasts with 兔 thO3 (rabbit)
The 入 tones are short tones, either high or low, and have no correspondence with Mandarin tones, since these are the characters ending in -h (glottal stop) -p -t -k .
If you have a musical scale where 1 is lowest and 5 is highest, the numbers after the =sign represents the contours of the Hokkien tone
陰 陽
平 1 = 55 5 = 24
上 2 = 51
去 3 = 31 7 = 33
入 4 = 2 8 = 5
Compare this with Mandarin
陰 陽
平 1 = 55 2 = 24
上 3 = 213
去 4 = 51
入
andrew
The four classes of tones are
1 平 ping
2 上 shang
3 去 qu
4 入 ru
Each, apart from 上 are divided into 陰 yin (1-4) and 陽 yang (5-8).
The two Hokkien 平 tones are identical to the Mandarin 平 tones.
Thus 新 xin1 (new), is the same tone as 新 sin1 in Hokkien.
Thus 門 men2 (door) is the same tone as 門 mng5 in Hokkien, but the numbering obscures the identity.
The Hokkien 上 tone sounds something like a Mandarin 去 tone.
The Hokkien 去 tone sounds something like a Mandarin 上 tone.
This is a simplification, since in standard Hokkien there are two 去 tones, which are both slightly different from the Mandarin 上 tone.
Thus 虎 hu3 (tiger) contrasts with 虎 hO2 (tiger)
Thus 兔 tu4 (rabbit) contrasts with 兔 thO3 (rabbit)
The 入 tones are short tones, either high or low, and have no correspondence with Mandarin tones, since these are the characters ending in -h (glottal stop) -p -t -k .
If you have a musical scale where 1 is lowest and 5 is highest, the numbers after the =sign represents the contours of the Hokkien tone
陰 陽
平 1 = 55 5 = 24
上 2 = 51
去 3 = 31 7 = 33
入 4 = 2 8 = 5
Compare this with Mandarin
陰 陽
平 1 = 55 2 = 24
上 3 = 213
去 4 = 51
入
andrew
Re: Tone Sandhi
Sim, yes...there's a 5th tone in Mandarin. The "qing sheng." Like 了 (le) in 我吃了 (wo chi le). It's marked by a 'dot.' We pronounce duck (ah) with this tone too.
Our rabbit 兔 uses the mandarin 4th tone. Oh, I remember my 3-kim (wife of my 3-ku) is from Xiamen. Although everytime we speak we understand each other, but our tones are totally different. For instance her 2nd tone is my 4th tone etc.. And an old lady I met in Singapore also had a different tone.
I'll sort these infos...and I bet it will take some time..
Our rabbit 兔 uses the mandarin 4th tone. Oh, I remember my 3-kim (wife of my 3-ku) is from Xiamen. Although everytime we speak we understand each other, but our tones are totally different. For instance her 2nd tone is my 4th tone etc.. And an old lady I met in Singapore also had a different tone.
I'll sort these infos...and I bet it will take some time..
-
Niuc
Re: Tone Sandhi
Stifven, in many Hokkien accents, sandhi tone of 獅 'sai1' (lion) is the tone of 象 'chiu*7' (elephant). Also sandhi tone of 2nd tone e.g. 虎 ho`2 (tiger) & 馬 be2 (horse) in some Hokkien accents (not in ours) is the first tone, similar to the first tone in Mandarin. Hence I am wondering if in your explaination about Filipino Hokkien tones, you mix the original tone & sandhi.
[%sig%]
[%sig%]