hi, i'm new to this so let me first explain i am not hokkien myself, but a " ah doh ah" an "ang moh gao" but i speak mandarin fairly well and had a chance to live in Tai Wan for about 4 months. I am increadibly interested in learning Taiwanese Minnan, i can already say a few phrases, and love Taiwanese music. Chen Lei !!!!!!! My question though is about Fu Zhou Hua. My boss is from Fu Zhou and so are all my other co-workers, except one Quan Zhou Ren (via vietnam though) So i was wondering if anybody new of some books or a website that i might be able to pick up some phrases of Fu Zhou Hua.
thank you very much every one.
Do Xia
Fu Zhou Hua
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ppk
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
traditionally fujiu nin dont consider themselves hokkien. u might not want to offend your boss for that
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daiwan lang
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
i know ppk, but i just want more info on hujiu wa that's all, you can speak it? i'm just curious really.
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Kobo-Daishi
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
Dear all,
ppk wrote:
>> traditionally fujiu nin dont consider themselves hokkien.
Why don’t “fujiu nin” 福州人 (Mand: fu2 zhou1 ren2, Cant: fuk1 jau1 yan4) consider themselves “hokkien” 福建人 (Mand: fu2 jian4 ren2, Cant: fuk1 gin3 yan4), after all Fuzhou City is within Fujian province. It would be like a San Franciscan saying he’s not a Californian.
Daiwan Lang what romanization are you using? It seems to be a mix of many schemes and of many dialects.
I guess these are the words that you used in your posting:
閩南語 (Mand: min3 nan2 yu3, Cant: man4 naam4 yu5)
福州 (Mand: fu2 zhou1, Cant: fuk1 jau1)
福建 (Mand: fu2 jian4, Cant: fuk1 gin3)
台灣 (Mand: tai2 wan1, Cant: toi4 waan1)
福州話 (Mand: fu2 zhou1 hua4, Cant: fuk1 jau1 wa6)
多謝 (Mand: duo1 xie4, Cant: do1 je6)
福州人 (Mand: fu2 zhou1 ren2, Cant: fuk1 jau1 yan4)
台灣人 (Mand: tai2 wan1 ren2, Cant: toi4 waan1 yan4)
泉州 (Mand: quan2 zhou1, Cant: chyun4 jau1)
Here are the words in the Quanzhou dialect:
閩南語 = Ban5 lam5 gu2
福州 = hok chiu
福建 = Hok kian3
台灣 = Tai5 oan5
福州話 = hok chiu oe7
多謝 = to sia7
福州人 = hok chiu lang5
台灣人 = Tai5 oan5 lang5
泉州 = choaN5 chiu
Now, I’ve got to go practice memorizing a gazillion more characters.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
ppk wrote:
>> traditionally fujiu nin dont consider themselves hokkien.
Why don’t “fujiu nin” 福州人 (Mand: fu2 zhou1 ren2, Cant: fuk1 jau1 yan4) consider themselves “hokkien” 福建人 (Mand: fu2 jian4 ren2, Cant: fuk1 gin3 yan4), after all Fuzhou City is within Fujian province. It would be like a San Franciscan saying he’s not a Californian.
Daiwan Lang what romanization are you using? It seems to be a mix of many schemes and of many dialects.
I guess these are the words that you used in your posting:
閩南語 (Mand: min3 nan2 yu3, Cant: man4 naam4 yu5)
福州 (Mand: fu2 zhou1, Cant: fuk1 jau1)
福建 (Mand: fu2 jian4, Cant: fuk1 gin3)
台灣 (Mand: tai2 wan1, Cant: toi4 waan1)
福州話 (Mand: fu2 zhou1 hua4, Cant: fuk1 jau1 wa6)
多謝 (Mand: duo1 xie4, Cant: do1 je6)
福州人 (Mand: fu2 zhou1 ren2, Cant: fuk1 jau1 yan4)
台灣人 (Mand: tai2 wan1 ren2, Cant: toi4 waan1 yan4)
泉州 (Mand: quan2 zhou1, Cant: chyun4 jau1)
Here are the words in the Quanzhou dialect:
閩南語 = Ban5 lam5 gu2
福州 = hok chiu
福建 = Hok kian3
台灣 = Tai5 oan5
福州話 = hok chiu oe7
多謝 = to sia7
福州人 = hok chiu lang5
台灣人 = Tai5 oan5 lang5
泉州 = choaN5 chiu
Now, I’ve got to go practice memorizing a gazillion more characters.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
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daiwan lang
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
thanks for the insight on romanization, i don't really have a good grasp on how to romanize min nan hua, but do pretty well in pin yin. i personally have the most experience with the taiwanese version of minnanese, so i'm not that good at following all the mainland and malaysian romanizations i have seen in the forum. also doesn't help that i'm not currently studying chinese formally. i'm actually just an uneducated kid trying to learn a thing or two. by the way, if you don't mind me asking are you a Shingon Buddhist? isn't that the sect Kobo Daishi is associated with? not sure, just asking. thanks for your help and support.
p.s.
thanks for not reprimanding this Nebraskan hick for his lack of knowledge.
p.s.
thanks for not reprimanding this Nebraskan hick for his lack of knowledge.
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Ken
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
Hi all,
Pertaining to whether Fuzhou ren are Hokkiens, I think what PPK meant was Fuzhou ren are not Minnans( which is habitually expressed as 'Hokkiens' by Southeast Asian Chinese). Over ther years, due to the overwhelming majority of Minnans, people have kinda assumed that Hokkiens are Minnans only. This is a habitual expression that has become so common. But technically speaking, Hokkien=Fujian or Fujian ren. Therefore any chinese who trace their ancestry to Fujian can rightfully call themselves Fujian ren or Hokkien, be it Minnan, Mindong or Minbei. In fact, to be more specific, a Minnan can be addresssed as Southern Hokkien and a Fuzhounese can be labelled as Eastern or Northern Hokkien.
It will be irrational for a Fuzhounese not to be acknowledged as a Fujian ren or Hokkien, based on the above definition. The isssue is only a problem of specificity and habituality.
Pertaining to whether Fuzhou ren are Hokkiens, I think what PPK meant was Fuzhou ren are not Minnans( which is habitually expressed as 'Hokkiens' by Southeast Asian Chinese). Over ther years, due to the overwhelming majority of Minnans, people have kinda assumed that Hokkiens are Minnans only. This is a habitual expression that has become so common. But technically speaking, Hokkien=Fujian or Fujian ren. Therefore any chinese who trace their ancestry to Fujian can rightfully call themselves Fujian ren or Hokkien, be it Minnan, Mindong or Minbei. In fact, to be more specific, a Minnan can be addresssed as Southern Hokkien and a Fuzhounese can be labelled as Eastern or Northern Hokkien.
It will be irrational for a Fuzhounese not to be acknowledged as a Fujian ren or Hokkien, based on the above definition. The isssue is only a problem of specificity and habituality.
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Ken
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
Hi all,
Pertaining to whether Fuzhou ren are Hokkiens, I think what PPK meant was Fuzhou ren are not Minnans( which is habitually expressed as 'Hokkiens' by Southeast Asian Chinese). Over ther years, due to the overwhelming majority of Minnans, people have kinda assumed that Hokkiens are Minnans only. This is a habitual expression that has become so common. But technically speaking, Hokkien=Fujian or Fujian ren. Therefore any chinese who trace their ancestry to Fujian can rightfully call themselves Fujian ren or Hokkien, be it Minnan, Mindong or Minbei. In fact, to be more specific, a Minnan can be addresssed as Southern Hokkien and a Fuzhounese can be labelled as Eastern or Northern Hokkien.
It will be irrational for a Fuzhounese not to be acknowledged as a Fujian ren or Hokkien, based on the above definition. The isssue is only a problem of specificity and habituality.
Pertaining to whether Fuzhou ren are Hokkiens, I think what PPK meant was Fuzhou ren are not Minnans( which is habitually expressed as 'Hokkiens' by Southeast Asian Chinese). Over ther years, due to the overwhelming majority of Minnans, people have kinda assumed that Hokkiens are Minnans only. This is a habitual expression that has become so common. But technically speaking, Hokkien=Fujian or Fujian ren. Therefore any chinese who trace their ancestry to Fujian can rightfully call themselves Fujian ren or Hokkien, be it Minnan, Mindong or Minbei. In fact, to be more specific, a Minnan can be addresssed as Southern Hokkien and a Fuzhounese can be labelled as Eastern or Northern Hokkien.
It will be irrational for a Fuzhounese not to be acknowledged as a Fujian ren or Hokkien, based on the above definition. The isssue is only a problem of specificity and habituality.
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ppk
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
maybe regional feelings, like traditionally teochews dont consider themselves cantonese, even thou teochew is in canton. this is taught to me b elders in the family when i was a kid... didnt bother to ask why then, just remember not to offend them by saying they are hokkiens...
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xxxx
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
1st of all , the origgins of the words ' Hok' and 'Kien' doesn't refer even to the area the Minnan dialects are spoken.... Hok refers to Fuzhou and Kien refers to Jianzhou (the Jianyaang ,Jianou regions) it seems absurd to leave them out from the definition of Hokkien. After all they are the places which gave rise to the name of the whole province itself.
i guess the southern Min pple was came into more contact with foreigners and other chinese pples. that is why they came to represent the Min pple in general and their dialects came to be called Hokkien. In Fujian itself, i ve never hear the pple refer to Hokkien as in the sense of language anyway, not in Xiamen definitely
i guess the southern Min pple was came into more contact with foreigners and other chinese pples. that is why they came to represent the Min pple in general and their dialects came to be called Hokkien. In Fujian itself, i ve never hear the pple refer to Hokkien as in the sense of language anyway, not in Xiamen definitely
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Kobo-Daishi
Re: Fu Zhou Hua
Dear Daiwan Lang,
>> by the way, if you don't mind me asking are you a Shingon Buddhist? isn't that the sect Kobo Daishi is associated with?
Though I did study Chinese Buddhism and Japanese Buddhism at university, I am not a Buddhist. I was raised on Chinese folk religion but not Buddhism. I studied Buddhism mainly for the cultural aspect.
Yes, Kobo Daishi is associated with the “Shingon” or “True Words” sect of Buddhism which he learnt while in Fujian, China. The characters are 真言 (Mand: zhen1 yan2; Cant: jan1 yin4) or “chin gian5” in the Quanzhou dialect.
I wrote a bit about Kobo Daishi at the zhongwen.com forums but I fear it’s been flushed. The forums there ceased operation after I wrote an e-mail to the webmaster complaining about some offensive posts there.
The webmaster is now a professor out here in California about a few miles from where I am.
Here is a bit about the real Kobo Daishi that I got off the Internet (it also explains, indirectly, why I chose my pseudonym):
“Kukai, also called Master Kobo, was born in Japan in 774 AD. In the summer of 804, he arrived at the Temple of the Black Dragon to study, becoming the sitting master of the 6th generation of Esoteric Buddhism. After 2 years, he returned to Japan and founded the Japanese True-word Esoteric Buddhism. The Temple of the Black Dragon is regarded by the Japanese of this branch of Buddhism as their "ancestor's temple".
Kukai specialized in calligraphy. While in China he enjoyed the reputation of "the monk of 5 styles of calligraphy", for he was extremely good at the cursive hand, the running hand, official script, the seal character and regular script. He wrote a study of Tang poetry and also edited a dictionary of the Chinese language which was the first of its kind in Japan. Utilizing the Chinese cursive hand to form characters, he created katakana, 1 of the 2 Japanese syllabaries, thereby contributing greatly to the development of Japanese writing.
Kukai also brought back with him Chinese painting and drawing, sculpture, architecture, medicine and farming techniques, enriching the cultural exchanges between China & Japan.
In 1981, under the initiation of the government of Kukai's birthplace and with the support of the XiAn city administration, a monument was raised in memory of Master Kukai at the ruins of the Temple of the Black Dragon.”
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
>> by the way, if you don't mind me asking are you a Shingon Buddhist? isn't that the sect Kobo Daishi is associated with?
Though I did study Chinese Buddhism and Japanese Buddhism at university, I am not a Buddhist. I was raised on Chinese folk religion but not Buddhism. I studied Buddhism mainly for the cultural aspect.
Yes, Kobo Daishi is associated with the “Shingon” or “True Words” sect of Buddhism which he learnt while in Fujian, China. The characters are 真言 (Mand: zhen1 yan2; Cant: jan1 yin4) or “chin gian5” in the Quanzhou dialect.
I wrote a bit about Kobo Daishi at the zhongwen.com forums but I fear it’s been flushed. The forums there ceased operation after I wrote an e-mail to the webmaster complaining about some offensive posts there.
The webmaster is now a professor out here in California about a few miles from where I am.
Here is a bit about the real Kobo Daishi that I got off the Internet (it also explains, indirectly, why I chose my pseudonym):
“Kukai, also called Master Kobo, was born in Japan in 774 AD. In the summer of 804, he arrived at the Temple of the Black Dragon to study, becoming the sitting master of the 6th generation of Esoteric Buddhism. After 2 years, he returned to Japan and founded the Japanese True-word Esoteric Buddhism. The Temple of the Black Dragon is regarded by the Japanese of this branch of Buddhism as their "ancestor's temple".
Kukai specialized in calligraphy. While in China he enjoyed the reputation of "the monk of 5 styles of calligraphy", for he was extremely good at the cursive hand, the running hand, official script, the seal character and regular script. He wrote a study of Tang poetry and also edited a dictionary of the Chinese language which was the first of its kind in Japan. Utilizing the Chinese cursive hand to form characters, he created katakana, 1 of the 2 Japanese syllabaries, thereby contributing greatly to the development of Japanese writing.
Kukai also brought back with him Chinese painting and drawing, sculpture, architecture, medicine and farming techniques, enriching the cultural exchanges between China & Japan.
In 1981, under the initiation of the government of Kukai's birthplace and with the support of the XiAn city administration, a monument was raised in memory of Master Kukai at the ruins of the Temple of the Black Dragon.”
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.