More words...about 300 I can't track down.

[SimL]

Thanks Sim. I still have to find that "bankrupt" then!

I suppose so, sorry! On the other hand, "to-taN" is also a lovely word, so I hope you'll take that up in the dictionary, under "go out of business"...

The only one I've heard so far is hah-chhiùⁿ (or perhaps hah-chhiù from a Penangite.

I drop the "-h" in the first syllable, and I have nasalization, but retaining the "-h" doesn't sound wrong, and non-nasalized doesn't sound wrong either.

[...] and also interesting (if the vowel is in fact nasalised) that the final -iùⁿ does exist in Penang Hokkien.

I would be tempted to explain the presence of the "-iùⁿ" in Penang Hokkien in this case as due to the fact that this is an onomatopoeia. English has "psst", "tsk, tsk", "pfft", and "huh?" (pronounced [hə~ʔ], with both nasalization and postvocalic glottal stop) which are sounds not otherwise acceptable in English.

[Mark Yong]

Ah-bin wrote:
cardboard Choá-áh 紙盒 is a cardboard box, but I'm sure there must be a word for cardboard other than Choá 紙

I checked with an old friend (actually, my ex-boss from Penang!). “Cardboard” is 紙皮 tsua2-phue5.

Ah-bin wrote:
ankle (Malay) I have the Malay loan "tumit" for heel from one of Tan Choon Hoe's books

From my ex-boss again - 跤目 kha1-bak8. I think it’s also used in Taiwan. He also added that ‘calves’ are kha1-kuai(?). Not sure what the 本字 for kuai is, and all online searches for it so far have not been successful.

Ah-bin wrote:
cart, wheelbarrow

For push-carts and trolleys in general, I would say 捒車 sak7-tshia1. A ‘dustpan’ is 糞斗 pun3-tau2, but I am not sure if, by extension, a ‘wheelbarrow’ can be called 斗車 tau2-tshia1.

Ah-bin wrote:
bay oan 灣 perhaps?

Not a commonly-used word in Penang, but apparently the old name for Bagan Jermal Road is 灣斗路 Uan1-TO2 lO7 “Bay Road”.

Ah-bin wrote:
body weight I was wondering whether "weight" had an abstract noun

Not that I am aware of, other than just 重 tang7. For “body weight”, I would just say 身重 sin1-tang7.

Ah-bin wrote:
by chance, accidentally - I know Tiâu-tî 超持 for "on purpose" could be negated for a shade of this meaning, and that Bô-sió-sim 無小心 would be accidentally for breaking things or doing something bad, but how about meeting someone or finding something by chance?

I would use 拄好 tu1-ho2 for “by chance” (note that in this context, the 拄 tu1 is generally not repeated).

[SimL]

I would use 拄好 tu1-ho2 for “by chance” (note that in this context, the 拄 tu1 is generally not repeated).

This is the only one I can say anything about, from the latest 10. I agree with Mark. "tu-ho" is "accidentally"; "tu-tu-ho" is "just right", "exactly right".

[AndrewAndrew]

Ah-bin wrote:
bay oan 灣 perhaps?

Not a commonly-used word in Penang, but apparently the old name for Bagan Jermal Road is 灣斗路 Uan1-TO2 lO7 “Bay Road”.

Just to clarify that the middle word is pronounced to2 rather than tO2 or to'2

[kkslok]

In taiping hokkien, 便宜 and 梳 are always being used. For bankrupt we say phok-kai.

[Ah-bin]

Thanks again everyone, that was a particularly good crop of words!

I've been going through old Penang Hokkien podcasts and finding all sorts of new words as well. I don't think it will be difficult to get it to 300 pages now.

I've also decided on the grammatical categories I can use to describe Hokkien. English terms like adjective and verb aren't really sufficient, so I've got hold of a copy of Yuanren Chao's grammar of spoken Chinese. I'll write and explain a lot more about the categories later. They make it much easier to describe how to use Hokkien words in a sentence.

I would use 拄好 tu1-ho2 for “by chance” (note that in this context, the 拄 tu1 is generally not repeated).

This is the only one I can say anything about, from the latest 10. I agree with Mark. "tu-ho" is "accidentally"; "tu-tu-ho" is "just right", "exactly right".

I do actually know this word, but had always thought of it as "it just so happened" but it actually fits the meaning really well.

I have heard Bhante Dhammavudho (and perhaps someone else) adds an á in the middle to make tú-á-hó instead, which is attested in Chiang-chiu usage as well. I might make it tú-(á)-hó 拄(仔)好 to capture the two ways of saying it.

[SimL]

Last weekend, my parents gave me a word which I had never heard before, but which they confirmed was common in both Penang Hokkien and non-Penang Hokkien. Namely "chau3-tu2-kham2"/湊抵坎 - "by chance, by accident".

Douglas has "chhau3-kham2"/湊坎 and "chau3-tu2-kham2"/湊抵坎, listed on p66 under "chhau3"/湊, on p530 under "tu2"/抵, and on p259 under "kham2"/坎. He gives the meaning as "unexpectedly and suddenly; accidentally, by chance", "unexpectedly".

I note that "Douglas" gives 抵 for "tu2", whereas you and Mark use 拄 for "tu1". In "tu-ho", the sandhied tone of the first syllable is "tu1" (in my usage), so it couldn't come from a citation "tu1". The citation tone "tu2" works better for the way I say it.

[SimL]

Hi kkslok,

Thanks for your input about Taiping Hokkien. Nice to see this matches Penang Hokkien usage, including this 'mysterious' "phok-kai" for "bankrupt".

Ah-bin: perhaps it's worth trying to investigate this "phok-kai" a bit more...? I saw on your "summary" (on p6 of this topic) that you had:

"Bankrupt pok-kai (Cantonese)"

Is this something based on your own knowledge of Cantonese? Interesting to note that the Hokkien borrowing (if that is what it is) has changed the "p-" to a "ph-".

[Ah-bin]

Maybe I should have written phok-kai (仆街) instead. In Cantonese they usually pronounce it it "phuk"....which was why I couldn't find it in my dictionary this morning under -ok. It originally means to fall down in the street (presumably dead), and as a wish for someone else to do so, it has become an insult instead.

This is from a Cantonese cartoon book. It illustrates the use of the word as an insult (except that Donald Tsang thinks people are yelling "Poor Guy" at him) and in its literal meaning of falling over in the street.

[amhoanna]

I saw a N. M'sian use the word "ki-thiu" yesterday, meaning MILE (Mand. 英哩). It can be taken apart like 点鐘：3.5 MILES = saⁿ ki poàⁿ thiu. Wow -- what is going on there?

Also, 仆街 seems to mean different things in Malaya Cantonese vs China Cantonese. Sorry if anyone said this already.