Malaysian/Singaporen Hokkien foreign malay words

[SimL]

It seems that there are a lot of arrogant and rude people in this forum bad-mouthing me during my long stay away from this forum ? Even when what I am trying to do is educate the people on the origins of the so-called 'hokkien' words but NOBODY here thanked me ?

I don't know if you'll see this, as you seem to have gone quiet again. I was away for a long time and couldn't reply when this first came in. Now, it seems a bit irrelevant, as it is so much later, but I feel I need to say this anyway.

If one person here thinks you're rude, arrogant and abrasive, then sure, it might be that person's thin skin. But if a large number of people think that, then perhaps you should take the time and energy to wonder if they might have a point.

I have never had an issue with the points you tried to make. Time after time, I have conceded where I thought you had valid points. I have amply demonstrated that I understand what you are saying, even if I don't agree with you. The two things I find objectionable in your posting style are: 1) You never show that you have ever understood a point of view which differs from your own. If you don't agree with a point of view (as Mark does not, with a lot of mine), that's fine. All I expect is that the point of view be understood. 2) You never concede that you are wrong. I, Ah-bin, and others have picked you up on particular statements you make, some of them totally inaccurate / completely wrong, said with your usual 100% confidence. When they are pointed out to you, you just move on to the next topic. If you want respect for the points which you make which are correct, you should give respect for the points of others which are correct.

So, to re-iterate, I've never had an issue with the points you tried to make. It's your style of posting which irritates and alienates me completely. This is foolish on your part, because I would imagine that you'd like people to adopt your point of view. Alienating them by being as abrasive as you are is obviously not going to achieve that goal.

It's quite amusing to see you describe the other people here as "arrogant and rude". When we discuss among ourselves, none of us have a perception of the others as being "arrogant and rude" - quite the contrary, this Forum is one of the most polite, friendly, and respectful ones that I know of. This despite the fact that some of our opinions are radically different / in opposition to many others - e.g. some people hating vs liking simplified characters; some people liking vs hating borrowed words; whether to write Hokkien in characters only vs roman letters only vs a mix; the nature of Chinese history; the nature of the Hokkien identity; what is a dialect vs a language; is Teociu actually a form of Hokkien; etc. There are probably as many radically differing opinions as regular participants here, but we all treat each other politely and with respect. The *only* arrogant and rude person I see on this Forum - I'm sorry to say - is you.

Finally, I would like you to know that at one stage you came across as pretty much lacking any credibility. This was when you said (I paraphrase) "I don't know Douglas" or "What's Douglas?". Douglas is the lexicographer who wrote the Amoy-English dictionary in the late 19th century - widely acknowledged as a *masterpiece* of lexicography. Even on a Chinese-only forum on Hokkien, I think someone who claimed to know "quite a bit about Hokkien" would be expected to know what that dictionary was (even if he/she didn't know the dictionary in detail). For an English-language forum on Hokkien, this was ignorance beyond belief. For me, you lack credibility most of the time, but this was just such a shining example that I feel you ought to be told.

I apogize to the others for raking all this up again. It's probably bad karma, but if someone doesn't tell you this, how is your karma ever going to change?

[amhoanna]

(Ta̍kgê hó... I'm excerpting this from a post on the Canto forum. Ūi: Saigon. Thought U guys would find this interesting.)

Today's gentleman referred to MONEY as lui 鐳, pronounced exactly as it would be in Amoy-type Hoklo: rounded back /u/ in the diphthong (not fronted), in a high, level tone. The etymon was active for making compounds. At one pt he said 車鐳 che-lui. In the context, I'm pretty sure he meant BUS FARE. Chin 錢 didn't seem to figure in his vocabulary at all.

[xng]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1629

See the post from Hong:

Engwai,I have given the book by Prof.Lim from China who said lui is from malay.In Chinagchiu,china there are people saying lui which could be someone from South east asia brought this word back..I have another theory that this word is from portugese because Cambodia also using this word 500 years ago.They have contact with Portugal started 500 years ago.

[Ah-bin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4ycZo ... N&index=12

"Lui" used in China at 1:53!

[xng]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4ycZo ... N&index=12

"Lui" used in China at 1:53!

Good job! You've proven that 'lui' is actually a Hokkien word spoken in Chiangchiu, China.
You don't need to be obnoxious to prove your point.

The origin of some words can be quite challenging and controversial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duit

Quote: Duit is also the Malay and the informal Indonesian equivalent of the English term "money". This happened because of centuries of Dutch rule in Indonesia.

So there are three theories now.

1. The Chiangchiu Hokkien in China imported the word 'lui' from the dutch

2. 'Lui' is actually a native Chinese word. Then why is it that Northerners, Cantonese, Quanzhou and Taiwanese people don't use the word? Only Chiangchiu Hokkien use the word?

3. The Chiangchiu Hokkien in China imported the word 'lui' from Nanyang relatives (Penang or Medan)

Which is the true origin?

Definitely, the 'lui' was not imported from Malay word because the Malays imported the word from dutch.
see dutch proverbs below

Putting a duit in the bag (Een duit in het zakje doen) - to contribute something
He is a duit-thief (Hij is een duitendief) - he is very greedy
He has much shit, but little duit (Hij heeft veel kak, maar weinig duiten) - he is a boaster
To be courageous like a three-duit haddock (Moed hebben als een schelvis van drie duiten) - to be cowardly
To give someone of four duit back (Iemand van vier duiten weerom geven) - to tell someone the truth

4. Please find me a Quanzhou video that also speak 'lui'. Forget about Taiwanese video because I watched it all the time and I've never heard of 'lui'.

[xng]

The other thing I want to point out is the Malay word 'mana'.

Mana uh... In Malay 'mana ada'.

Actually, the correct word is 'Na uh...' 哪有

Remove the 'ma' from mana.

[xng]

Looks like you're back from cutting and pasting to the China History Forum......

xng wrote (dec 23 2010):

The northerners create 'Lang' character because that's how it sounds to them with a 人農 sound but that's not the original character. At that time in middle chinese, the sound has changed to 'Yin'. The original character is a simple 人, that's how 'man' was written 5000 years ago.

You made this up, just admit it for goodness sake. You make up stories about things to prove your point, and never ever admit that you are wrong about anything.

Even malaysian cantonese uses 'lui' but if you were to go to china guangdong province, NONE of the natives there know what 'lui' is.

Rubbish, they do, they just have a different meaning for it. Copper coin. I never said it didn't come from Malay. So you are lying if you imply that I did.

Dear obnoxious AhBin

1. You really don't know the difference between Hokkien colloquail and literary sound, do you? Colloquail is the sound closer to Old Chinese. Colloquail is 'lang' and literary is 'lin'. Lin is closer to Middle Chinese 'Yin'.

Why would ancient people create another new character for 人 when there is already a very ancient character for it. Just because it has changed sound, doesn't mean the original character is not 人 .

Or do you think that all Chinese characters in Hokkien have only one sound?

2. Really? I went there many times and nobody there knows what is 'lui'. Only those who has Malaysian friends know what is 'lui'. Eg. Alan Tam, the singer only say 'lui' when he is in Malaysia but when he goes back to HK, he say 'chin'.

3. Copper coin is called 'Thung Chin' 銅錢, Thung means copper. Chin means money. Just the 'lui' part doesn't mean copper coin, the most important character is still 'thung' 銅 .

[xng]

Xng wrote

食風 is NOT borrowed from Malay, rather the malay borrowed from chinese. cantonese also use 'sik fung'.

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictio ... ?full=true

Care to click on the little link to the full entry? Or did you just hope we would miss it?

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictio ... rds/15681/

Little writing underneath says:
[2] calque from Malay "Makan Angin"

Another one of xng's greatest hits! Ah, you do make or lives so interesting!

Dear obnoxious Ahbin

1. That Cantonese forum can be edited by anyone. You could have put it there yourself.

I myself have found some errors in that online dictionary in the past although the majority are correct.

2. However, I do agree that this requires further research but you don't have to be so arrogant and rude to other members unless you want the same treatment from me.

Formal Indonesia Malay word is liburan and not makan angin. By the way, Malay language originated from Sumatra so why is makan angin not spoken there?

I will ask my Indonesian Sumatra friends later as to the informal Malay word for 'go for vacation'.

See below for a more valid argument.

[xng]

... Okay.....

Xng, since you are back...

I must admit, I was quite disappointed when you said 食風 in the sense of travelling is Sintic. 吃西北風 itself evidently proves that the concept of wind-eating originally registered on a negative connotation. Much like how Bees are symbols of diligence; lotus are symbols of purity.. Wind-eating indirectly depicts how someone is so poor that he can only eat "wind".

Anyway, I'm sure you know that...

1. You have a point there. Come to think of it, I've never heard of any HK people say 'sik fung'.


2. This is another one of those difficult origin like 'duit' .Whether it originated from Malay or a native Hokkien word.


Thanks for pointing out to me. I'll report back after I've done my research.

[xng]

You guys might be interested to watch the 'Axian special trip to Jinmen 金門'.

It seems that some of the locals there also use 'pasar' and 'lui'.

The explanation from the local guide (not me!) was that these words are imported from Nanyang (SEA) Chinese and are Malay words.

This is the famous 'Axian' show where he visits many food stalls in Malaysia.