Retaining Hokkien Language

[James Campbell]

Geographically speaking, Malaysia and Singapore were never meant for Hokkien speakers. These are not the countries where Hokkien was born. This is an import. Retaining native Malay languages should be of more importance than Hokkien. And adopting a more 'official' Chinese over Hokkien does not seem to be an irrational decision as Mandarin has more prestige, even if the majority of people are Hokkien speakers. This also happened in Taiwan. But since Hokkien has been spoken in China for thousands of years, and in Taiwan already for hundreds, it's not going to die out soon. Why do I keep saying this? I keep reading that Hokkien is doomed to die, and yet I keep repeating myself that it's a real living and growing language.

Sum Won,

You wrote "because a W is a consonant sound". I don't know where you learned this from, but 'w' is NOT a consonant sound; it is a semivowel. Just like 'y'. A consonant must obstruct the airflow or some point of articulation. The semivowels only compress the airflow through a space smaller than vowels, but larger than consonants. And in Chinese, based on b, p, m, f ordering you don't find 'w' (ㄨ) listed under the consonants. Chinese has three semivowels, the other being 'yu' (ㄩ).

James

[BHYeo]

Hokkien language maybe really living and growing in Taiwan but the fact is it is gradually dying in Malaysia and Singapore unless Taiwanese Hokkien can give it a booster like what Hong Kong is doing for Cantonese through the so-called high quality and exciting Cantonese movies and TV series as well as Cantonese songs. Of course, a lot depends on the Hokkiens themselves as parents to ensure their children continue to speak their language. But in Malaysia and Singapore, this is not so. Mandarin, English or Cantonese is fast replacing Hokkien as a medium of communication in Hokkien families due mainly to the surroundings, media and the medium of education in schools.

[Mark]

James: currently Malay does not appear to be an endangered language in Malaysia and perhaps marginally in Singapore.

However, if you think about it, Indo-European languages are an import to Europe... nearly all languages are "imports" from elsewhere.

[YM]

BH Yeo,
Why do you keep saying Hokkien is threatened in Malaysia?

Here in Penang, it's alive and well.

As an English-speaking Cantonese in Penang, I sometimes feel pressured to speak in Hokkien. In some circles, they'll just freeze you out if you don't speak Hokkien. There are many Cantonese families in Penang who use Hokkien as the only Chinese language.

I'm tired of some Hokkien Malaysian whingeing about the dominance of Cantonese in the broadcast media in Malaysia. There's no stopping any enterprising person from setting up a Hokkien network if he/she wants to. And there's no shortage of Hokkien songs and films on CD either.

I detect a whiff of inferiority complex when I (personally) hear negative racist sterotyping of Cantonese by Hokkiens (e.g. Cantonese are rude etc. etc.)

If you ask me, _Hainanese_ is the threatened Chinese language in Malaysia, not Hokkien.

[:-)]

To anyone interested:

"Hainanese" is classified under the Hokkien/Min language family.

The problem with preserving Hokkien is that no one will agree to which dialect sould be the standards for Hokkien. If we go to the source of the Hokkien Motherland in Fujian Province, Hokkien is sub-classified into 3 groups such as Min-bei, Min-zhong, Min-nan. Among each of these language families of Hokkien(Min), each villiage(town) will have it's own variation of Hokkien just like the Cantonese languages in Guangdong & Guangxi & Annam, or like the Wu language of the Yangzi Delta, or the Gan languages of Hunan, etc... The difference in Cantonese is that the Pearl Delta dialect is widley accepted to be the standards for Cantonese without contest; and with Wu, Shanghainese is accepted to be the standards, but just because there is a standard, that doesn't mean people will force themselves to speak it.

Hokkien is very alive in East Broadway street in New York City (which is a very long commercial strip) and I believe it is Minnan (Xiamen/Amoy) dialect that dominates. Taiwanese is classified under the Xiamen/Amoy language group and has a strong presence in Flushings, New York. The Hokkien (Fujianese/Taiwanese) community in Manhattan & Flushings combined makes them a very significant community in Greater New York City to be defined as a rising political market group which in the future will challenge the local Cantonese political economic dominence. (Eventually, Mandarin, not English, is going to be the political unifier for these 2 groups in New York as it is in Singapore as it is unlikely that each group will want to learn the other's native language.) I believe that New York City is not an attractive migration trend to the overseas Cantonese anymore as much as it is for the Hokkien for the Cantonese are finding better networking opportunities/alternatives in California & Canada. I'm not saying the local Cantonese of New York City is going to disappear, however, it's size has already peaked and maxed out it's local resources i.e. community-defined real estate. The main obsticle that prevents the unity of the Hokkien community in Manhattan & Flushings is that of class distinction, economic & political clout, & legal status in the USA. I believe that Chinese, especially Hokkiens from SE Asia who are planning to move to the USA will find ample economic opportunity to bridge the Chinese communities in New York.

It's funny that people form other language groups find other people's languages funny. If we all thought our very own languages were funny, wouldn't we all be laughing at ourselves right now?

[Mark]

Wrong, Hokkien is not = to Min. It is = to Minnan. And even then they are not interchangable- although this is the way it is widely used (as interchangable with Minnan), it's supposed to be a _dialect_ of Minnan.

[:-)]

I stand corrected. My Bad

In addition when I refered to Gan spoken in Hunan, again I was wrong. The Gan languages are spoken in Jiangxi, where as the Xiang languages are spoken in Hunan. My Bad again

I must say, it's obvious I've been a very bad boy Shame on me, but I'm glad I haven't yet exposed my naughty side!!! I really shouldn't be posting anything on the internet (ie yesterday) while the instructor is giving a lecture... It's easy to get my thoughts crossed when class is in session :-X

As far as Hainanese being threatened in Malaysia, I believe there may still be a thriving Hainanese community on Crab Island, Malaysia which according to a Singapore Airlines magazine I was reading on my way to Hong Kong states that this island's sole inhabitants are Hainanese and visiting the island community could take you several hundred years back into the colonial era of the South Seas.

[Mark]

lol.

Yep, you Gan-in-Hunan-sayer, you!

[:-)]

Yo Mark, U da man.

Just curious, are you a Brit from S'pore?

[Mark]

Maybe :p