Hokkien Dialects in Guangdong

[Chris Wong]

Hokkien being a dialect originating from the Southern Fujian region, is also spoken in certain parts of the Guangdong province.

When we think of the Minnan dialect spoken in Guangdong, Teochiu or Swatow comes to mind. Although Teochiu is perhaps the most well known Minnan dialect spoken in Guangdong, 2 subdialects of Hokkien are found in some areas west of Hong Kong. They are the Longdu and Leizhou dialects.

Longdu is a small island off Zhongsan city, which is not too far from Macau.

Leizhou is a coastal district in South Eastern Guangdong, which is not too far from Hainan island.

Macau which is a Portuguese colony, was first used by the seafaring Hoklos as a commercial port. One could safely assume that the culture of Macau has traces of Portuguese, Cantonese and Hokkien influences.

Another good reason to say that the Hokkiens have made their mark in Macau and the Zhongshan area is the people. Most Chinese in Macau and in Zhongsan are Cantonese. However, many people who come from these areas have facial types that are typical Minnan.

I have met several Zhongshan Cantonese who were mistaken for Teochiu.

So here is deal with the Minnan dialects spoken in Guangdong. Any Minnan dialect spoken in the coastal areas east of Hong Kong should be part of the Teochiu family. Anything west of Hong Kong should be Hokkien.

[Niuc]

Hi Chris,

I'm really interested in your posting. What are typical Minnan facial types (in comparison with other groups within Chinese big family & other East Asians)?

Could you please provide more info about similarity & differences between Minnan dialects found in Longdu & Leizhou compared to Hokkien & Teochiu?

I also read that Minnan dialects are also found in Southern part of Zhejiang. Any info?

Thanks a lot.


***Sin Chun Kiong Hi***

[Chris Wong]

Hey Niuc,

I was mistaken to say that Longdu is an island off Zhongshan city. Longdu is actually a metropolis near Zhongshan city. In Chinese, Longdu means the 'Dragon Metropolis'. Outside the Zhongshang city area, there are some surrounding islands. I do not know if any Minnan speakers live in them, but you shouldn't be surprised if they exist. The Hokkiens (Hoklos) who were a seafaring people, settled in many coastal areas and islands on the South China Sea.

There is very little information about the Longdu and Leizhou dialects. They seem to have similar tonal structures, and have similar words with Hokkien. They are part of the Minnan family of dialects, but the Longdu and Leizhou variants should originate from Hokkien, and not Teochiu. Therefore, these 2 dialects are offshoots of Hokkien. To make matters complex, these 2 subdialects have variant forms of themselves.

Unlike the other Southern Chinese dialects such as Cantonese and Hakka, there is much to be solve when it comes to the Minnan family of dialects, and its people. Much of the mysteries pertain to the Minnan speakers in Guangdong, Hainan and some parts of Southeast Asia. There is an abundance of information on the Amoy People and the Taiwanese. Several questions needs to be answered....Do we call Teochius 'Hoklo'? Why there is so little information on the Longdu Minnan people, and how they ended up in a Cantonese speaking city such as Zhongshan? What about the people in Eastern Coastal Guangdong, besides the Teochiu speaking population, who are these other people, where did they come from? Leizhou has more Minnan speakers than Longdu, and yet there is even less info about these people. Did Hokkiens settled in Guangdong? Finally, where did the ancestors of the Minnan Hainanese originate, from Fujian or from Guangdong?

Regarding the Cantonese with Minnan features. It just happens that many Chinese people have a clue of others where they originate. Many Zhongshan Cantonese can be mistaken as a Hokkien, Teochiu, or Taiwanese because of the facial features. Many Zhongshan Cantonese do not resemble the Cantonese of the 4 or 3 districts area. They look more like the coastal people such as the Teochius or Hokkiens.

Take care,

Chris

[Chris Wong]

Yes, Minnan dialects are spoken in Southern Zhejiang province.

There isn't much info on this subject.

A book to read is the Two divergent Southern Min dialects
of the Sanxiang district, Zhongshan, Guangdong by Nicholas Bodman.

I haven't read this, but it should be a good book on the Longdu Minnan people.


Chris

[Niuc]

Hi Chris,

Thanks a lot for the info. It's really interesting. There are so many dialects within Minnan group and not all of them are (fairly) intelligible to others. BTW are there any clear criterias to include a dialect into Minnan family?

Could you please give more info regarding Minnan facial features? Basically I can't really make a good guess from facial features whether someone is Cantonese or Hakka or Teochew or Hokkian.
Any practical samples?


Thanks & Regards,
Niuc

[Ong]

Hi Chris,


What sort of dialect is spoken in the city of Wenzhou in Southern Zhejiang Province? Is it the Wu dialect or a mixture of Wu and Minnan dialects?

Best regards,

Ong

[JCampbell]

Chris,

You mention there is little information on the Longdu or Leizhou dialects. I don't have anything on Longdu, but I do have a 392-page Leizhou dialect dictionary (old place name was Haikang 海康). It is very comprehensive and describes Leizhou as a Min dialect. But it also states that there are bai-hua and Kejia (Ngai-hua) speakers there too. Some vocabulary is the same as Minnan such as body 身體 > sieng33 khu24 身軀, thai11 to kill, kia31 a child, tshui21 mouth, nang11 a person, phai31 bad, kau21 to 到, tshu21 home, etc. It's certainly not Cantonese-speaking area.


Niuc,

To see if a dialect is Minnan, some of the easiest signs are to look at its tone layout, in addition to its phonology. The main Minnan dialects have a higher number of possible syllables than other Chinese dialects because they have not only stop endings (-p, -t, -k) but also a glottal stop ending (-/?/). These endings can also be combined with nasal non-nasal vowel features, thus greatly increasing the number of possible syllables. Some dialects like Chaozhou have fewer stop endings, but more tones, so it depends on what set of dialects you're looking at.

Other than that, you can check the actual words used in the dialect and, disregarding different pronunciations, do they use the same words as other Min dialects?

You can take a look at some tones of Minnan dialects as reference at my website: [http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/tones/min.htm#mn] http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/tones/min.htm#mn
I don't have the phonology or tone sandhi information finished yet.


Ong,

Wenzhou is a southern Wu dialect. You can check its classification within Wu and its tones at my website: [http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/tones/wu.htm#do] http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/tones/wu.htm#do

[Niuc]

Hi James,

Thanks a lot for your info regarding Minnan tone layout. Your website are really informative. I really admire your linguistic ability.

Could you please give more info about glottal stop ending with some words examples? Thanks.

BTW, actually in my previous posting I was asking about Minnan facial (physical) features mentioned by Chris. Any info from any friends here? Thanks.

[A-hiong]

Also, Minnan dialects don't have the "f" sound! That's an easy give away if its Minnan. Cantonese has the "f" sound. I don't know much about Hakka so that might be a sticky one.

[Casey]

Hi! Niuc
To input my limited knowledge about words with a glottal stop, I think these are words with a "ru" tone and do not end with a consonant; e.g., tio (correct), pe (to break open-pe khui), to (table), etc. The sound stops abruptly.