Some "missing" expressions in Penang Hokkien

[niuc]

We usually say cit8-bak8-ni4 for ba̍knih'ákú (bak8-nih4-a2-ku2).

Beside ho2-ka1-cai3, there is ho2-chai2 (more common in my variant). How about in Penang or Taiwan?

[Mark Yong]

SimL wrote:
Ah-bin and I were talking about the fact that the expression "ma1-nia2-ku2" (= "a short time") exists in Penang Hokkien. Do other variants have it? Anyone (Mark?) care to take a guess at what the TLJ for it might be (the last syllable is obviously "久", I mean the first two). Maybe it's not even Sinitic.

Hi, Sim & Ah-bin,

Yes, ma1-nia2-ku2 does exist in Penang Hokkien. It is normally shortened to man1-ku2, but not always (the older generation tend to pronounce it in full).

As for the 本字 punji for the first two morphemes, I have postulated 晚[仔] or 慢[仔] - the tones seem to match, and assuming that one accepts:
(1) the initial shift from b- to m-
(2) the extended meanings of 晚 or 慢

In KL and the southern states of Malaysia, one also hears tan-jit-man-ia in place of Penang's 等一下 tan-jit-E.

The problem with my postulation of 晚 or 慢, is that in the Southern states, I have heard 'this time' / 'on this occasion' said as cit-ma2, which would then debunk both candidates, having -n endings.

[AndrewAndrew]

目[目聶]仔久 bak-nih-a-ku --> ma-nia-ku / ma-na-ku is probably the most plausible, and mirrors 明仔載 bin-a-cai --> mia-cai / ma-cai.

[amhoanna]

Hókacài and kacài are common in TW. I think I've heard hókaicài there too. I'm still confused on whether to lay a running tone or standing tone on the cài. In TW I think -- but I'm not sure -- that it takes a running tone in kacài but a standing tone in hókacài. What do all you guys use (on hókacài/hókaicài)? For me, figuring out when to run and when to stand has been one of the toughest parts of learning Hoklo.

I don't think I've heard hóchái in TW. Sounds cool, tho.

[SimL]

Thanks everyone for the inputs on "ma1-nia2-ku2".

And yes, I had forgotten "ci(t)-ma1-nia2", but that's a common phrase too, meaning something like "just a short while": "i ci(t)-ma1-nia2 toh tuiN lai liau" (= "he'll be back in a tick").

Personally, I'm totally convinced that it's from "bak8-nih4-a2-ku2". From the moment amhoanna gave us this term, I went "YESSSS". .

Mark: perhaps we can date the elision "ma1-nia2-ku2" -> "man1-ku2". As far as I know, this was totally unknown when we left Penang in 1972. I'll check with my parents and a number of aunts and uncles, and if they confirm that, then we can safely date the elision to "after the early 70's".