Hi friends:
How do you pronounce 警察 (police, 'jing3cha2' in Mandarin): is it 'king2 chat4' or 'king3 chat4'? Also 警戒 (to warn, 'jing3jie4' in Mandarin): is it 'king2 kai3' or 'king3 kai3'? In Douglas' & Barclay it's 'king2' but in Xiamenfangyancidian it's 'king3'. Ours is 'king3'. How about yours?
Singaporean slang for police is 'ma1 ta5', from Malay word "mata" (eye). We don't use this but usually we call police 'ching3 ping1' 鎗兵 (gunned soldier). Do you know this term too?
Have you ever heard people pronouncing 'sin1 bun5' 新聞 (news) in a "naturalized way" as 'sim7bun5' (sandhi form)?
What's the "hanji" for 'chiu2 ci2' (ring) -> 手_?
The original meaning of 'ian1 ci1' 胭脂 is rouge but in our place & Singapore it's used to mean lipstick. How about yours?
Please help. Thanks a lot.
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Question
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Casey
Re: Question
Hi Niuc!
1."警察": I have always thought that it is "king3 chat4" (sandhi: king2 chat4) until you mentioned it. From the dictionary,"Putonghua Minnan Fangyan Cidan", it is "king2 chat4". For other terms the dictionary shows: "警备, king2 pi7", "警戒, king2 kai3", “警报, king2 po3", at the same time, "交警", kao1 king3"(traffic police), "警告, king3 ko3", "and most interesting "警察局, king3 chat4 kik8". It looks as if how to pronounce "警", king2 or king3, depends more on its common usage and there is no fixed rule for it.
I have never heard of the term "枪兵, ching3 ping1". I think in the old days, people did not distinguish very well between policemen and soldiers.
2."新闻": I think when one reads it fast, it is "sim7 bun5". (Other example: "快慢, kin2 ban7" spoken as "kim1 ban7", "乒乓球, pin1 pong1 kiu5", as "pim7 pong7 kiu5).
3."戒指": The dictionary above shows: "手指 chiu2 ci2". (The funny thing is that its numerical auxiliary word is "kha1" (骨交)(foot), e.g., a ring, cit8 kha1 chiu2 ci2 even though it is for the finger).
4."胭脂": I think "ian1 ci1 is definitely not "lipstick". Lipstick is called "tun5 hong5, 唇红". The former is to apply on the face and the latter, the lips. I do not think that there is a confusion of the two terms in Singapore, at least I have not met anyone in Singapore called lipstick "ian1 ci1". Are you sure you do not use the term "tun5 hong5"?
1."警察": I have always thought that it is "king3 chat4" (sandhi: king2 chat4) until you mentioned it. From the dictionary,"Putonghua Minnan Fangyan Cidan", it is "king2 chat4". For other terms the dictionary shows: "警备, king2 pi7", "警戒, king2 kai3", “警报, king2 po3", at the same time, "交警", kao1 king3"(traffic police), "警告, king3 ko3", "and most interesting "警察局, king3 chat4 kik8". It looks as if how to pronounce "警", king2 or king3, depends more on its common usage and there is no fixed rule for it.
I have never heard of the term "枪兵, ching3 ping1". I think in the old days, people did not distinguish very well between policemen and soldiers.
2."新闻": I think when one reads it fast, it is "sim7 bun5". (Other example: "快慢, kin2 ban7" spoken as "kim1 ban7", "乒乓球, pin1 pong1 kiu5", as "pim7 pong7 kiu5).
3."戒指": The dictionary above shows: "手指 chiu2 ci2". (The funny thing is that its numerical auxiliary word is "kha1" (骨交)(foot), e.g., a ring, cit8 kha1 chiu2 ci2 even though it is for the finger).
4."胭脂": I think "ian1 ci1 is definitely not "lipstick". Lipstick is called "tun5 hong5, 唇红". The former is to apply on the face and the latter, the lips. I do not think that there is a confusion of the two terms in Singapore, at least I have not met anyone in Singapore called lipstick "ian1 ci1". Are you sure you do not use the term "tun5 hong5"?
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Casey
Re: Question
Friends!
I have a question too.
In Hokkien dialect, the corridor (walk way) outside the house on the ground floor is called "五脚基, gO7 kha1 ki1 or gO7 kha1 ki7", (five-foot way). This term, I understand, is adopted from the South-east Asia (but originated from India) as the walk way is of the width of about 5 feet. However, the corridor outside the house or veranda on upper floors is called "走马楼, cau2 be2 lau5" (literally running-horse chamber). Does anybody know why it is named so? Is it because it is similar to the part of a city wall allowing horses to run in the old days?
In Cantonese, there is a term called "骑楼, khei-lao", but this refers to the part of upper storeys covering (riding over, hence named) the "five-foot way". Though the two terms are literally quite similar they refer to different things.
I have a question too.
In Hokkien dialect, the corridor (walk way) outside the house on the ground floor is called "五脚基, gO7 kha1 ki1 or gO7 kha1 ki7", (five-foot way). This term, I understand, is adopted from the South-east Asia (but originated from India) as the walk way is of the width of about 5 feet. However, the corridor outside the house or veranda on upper floors is called "走马楼, cau2 be2 lau5" (literally running-horse chamber). Does anybody know why it is named so? Is it because it is similar to the part of a city wall allowing horses to run in the old days?
In Cantonese, there is a term called "骑楼, khei-lao", but this refers to the part of upper storeys covering (riding over, hence named) the "five-foot way". Though the two terms are literally quite similar they refer to different things.
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Niuc
Re: Question
Hi Casey 
Thanks for your help.
警 is always 'king3' in our accent. About those "discrepancies" in the dictionary, is it due to mixing of different accents?
About 'sim7-bun5', my experience is identical. But isn't 手指 'chiu2 cai*2' i.e. fingers? Interestingly, we don't say 'kha1' in counting ring ('chiu2 ci2') but 'khia1' -> 'cit8 khia1 chiu2 ci2'. Also in counting basket i.e. 'cit8 khia1 na5'. 'cit8 khia1 ue5' means a shoe (not a pair). It may be another word but 'khia1' also means odd number, as the opposite of 'sang1'/'siang1' (pair, couple, even number).
I just checked some Mandarin dictionaries and found out that the original meaning of 胭脂 is the red cosmetic for coloring the cheeks and lips. Interestingly, the meaning of rouge in English is identical with the original meaning of 'ian1 ci1'. My native Singaporean friends also use 'ian1 ci1' for lipstick and never 'tun5 hong5'. I neither use 'tun5 hong5' nor 'khau2 hong5' but I think 'tun5 hong5' is more suitable than 'khau2 hong5'.
走馬樓 is 天台 'tian1 tai5' in our usage. We also call open space on top of a building 'tian1 tai5'.
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Thanks for your help.
警 is always 'king3' in our accent. About those "discrepancies" in the dictionary, is it due to mixing of different accents?
About 'sim7-bun5', my experience is identical. But isn't 手指 'chiu2 cai*2' i.e. fingers? Interestingly, we don't say 'kha1' in counting ring ('chiu2 ci2') but 'khia1' -> 'cit8 khia1 chiu2 ci2'. Also in counting basket i.e. 'cit8 khia1 na5'. 'cit8 khia1 ue5' means a shoe (not a pair). It may be another word but 'khia1' also means odd number, as the opposite of 'sang1'/'siang1' (pair, couple, even number).
I just checked some Mandarin dictionaries and found out that the original meaning of 胭脂 is the red cosmetic for coloring the cheeks and lips. Interestingly, the meaning of rouge in English is identical with the original meaning of 'ian1 ci1'. My native Singaporean friends also use 'ian1 ci1' for lipstick and never 'tun5 hong5'. I neither use 'tun5 hong5' nor 'khau2 hong5' but I think 'tun5 hong5' is more suitable than 'khau2 hong5'.
走馬樓 is 天台 'tian1 tai5' in our usage. We also call open space on top of a building 'tian1 tai5'.
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Casey
Re: Question
Niuc
You are right. Your "khia1" (Tang5 Ua*1 accent) is equivalent to "kha1" in E-Mng and Ciangciu accents. It also indicates an odd number as in "cit8 kha1 ue5" (one shoe). So the Hanzi for "kha1" or "khia1" should not be "骨交" after all. What could it be then? Could it be "奇" (versus "双, siang1" or "sang1")?
The open space on top of a building is "thian1 tai5". There is no question about it. My question is why we would call the open corridor (on the side of a building) on upper floors "cau2 be2 lau5" ("走马楼" literally running horse chamber) as the space (especially the length) is not big enough for horses to run on it. Even if there is enough space, why would one want to let horses running on it? I am just curious to know why it is named as such. Was there any particular reason or story behind it? My guess is, could it be because it resembles the ancient city walls which allowed horses to run on it. Does anybody have any idea?
You are right. Your "khia1" (Tang5 Ua*1 accent) is equivalent to "kha1" in E-Mng and Ciangciu accents. It also indicates an odd number as in "cit8 kha1 ue5" (one shoe). So the Hanzi for "kha1" or "khia1" should not be "骨交" after all. What could it be then? Could it be "奇" (versus "双, siang1" or "sang1")?
The open space on top of a building is "thian1 tai5". There is no question about it. My question is why we would call the open corridor (on the side of a building) on upper floors "cau2 be2 lau5" ("走马楼" literally running horse chamber) as the space (especially the length) is not big enough for horses to run on it. Even if there is enough space, why would one want to let horses running on it? I am just curious to know why it is named as such. Was there any particular reason or story behind it? My guess is, could it be because it resembles the ancient city walls which allowed horses to run on it. Does anybody have any idea?
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Casey
Re: Question
Oh yah! About "手指", though written the same, when it is pronounced as "ciu2 ci2" it means "ring" and when it is pronounced as "ciu2 cai*2" it means "finger".
Btw "finger" is more colloquially called "cng2 thau5" or "cng2 thau5 a2" (指头, 指头仔). The name of each individual finger: "tua7 pO7 bu2" (thumb), "ki2 cai*2" (index finger), "tiong1 cai*2" (middle finger), "lao2 cai*2" (ring finger) and "be2 cai*2" (last finger) respectively. Is it the same way you call them?
Btw "finger" is more colloquially called "cng2 thau5" or "cng2 thau5 a2" (指头, 指头仔). The name of each individual finger: "tua7 pO7 bu2" (thumb), "ki2 cai*2" (index finger), "tiong1 cai*2" (middle finger), "lao2 cai*2" (ring finger) and "be2 cai*2" (last finger) respectively. Is it the same way you call them?
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Sim
Re: Question
We call the "nail" at the end of the finger "cng1 kak4" (with tone sandhi).
Thanks for reminding me of "cng thau (a)". I knew but had forgotten this word, as we normally use the borrowed Malay word "ja1 ri2".
Sim.
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Thanks for reminding me of "cng thau (a)". I knew but had forgotten this word, as we normally use the borrowed Malay word "ja1 ri2".
Sim.
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