More grave inscriptions
.Sim,just take a taxi from xiamen to that place to get the real name and the tone .Maybe is cuanciu sound giong with the g has been lost.
It is nice to know that Mrs.Lee Kuan Yew is from 東孚 a place next to hai chhng.Now the only place of origin I haven't seen in SEA is 观口
It is nice to know that Mrs.Lee Kuan Yew is from 東孚 a place next to hai chhng.Now the only place of origin I haven't seen in SEA is 观口
Last edited by ong on Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
When I was in China I don't start chat about my grandfather origin 南安诗山 because I have no idea how to pronunce 山
Prof.Ciu mention 东孚 has words like 杨，梁 with cuanciu wendu of iong but ciangciu baidu ionn. So I think 山仰 is the same case.
I met an old buddhist monk from Penang who speaks ionn recently although he never read any dict before .Nice to hear he speaks this kind of nasal sound.
Prof.Ciu mention 东孚 has words like 杨，梁 with cuanciu wendu of iong but ciangciu baidu ionn. So I think 山仰 is the same case.
I met an old buddhist monk from Penang who speaks ionn recently although he never read any dict before .Nice to hear he speaks this kind of nasal sound.
This is my attempted transcription of the inscriptions of "Grave A", the joint grave of my father's maternal grandparents, Tan Hong Lim & Lim Seok Kee.
They are buried in a single plot, at the "United Hokkien Cemeteries", Mt. Erskine, Penang, Malaysia.
There are 5 photographs associated with this grave:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... erview.jpg
A0 – overall picture of the grave, with me next to it.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... t_slab.jpg
A1 - slab on the left - English text giving the names of the sons, daughters, and grandsons of the deceased couple.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... t_slab.jpg
A2 - slab on the right - English text giving the names and death dates of the deceased couple, preceded by the words "IN LOVING MEMORY OF", and ending with "R.I.P."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... e_slab.jpg
A3 - slab in the middle - Chinese text in four sub-sections:
i) Top sub-section (larger characters) - the place of origin of the deceased couple.
ii) Middle sub-section (larger characters) - the names of the deceased couple.
iii) Left sub-section (smaller characters) - the names of the sons, daughters, and grandsons of the deceased couple.
iv) Right sub-section (smaller characters) - the death dates of the deceased couple.
The text of this slab shares many of the characteristics of the middle slabs which other Forum members have posted here.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... m_slab.jpg
A4 - slab at the bottom - a standard three-character Chinese phrase.
I don't really think that much more information can be extracted out of the photographs, but everyone who feels up to the challenge is welcome to try. Any additional information (or corrections) would of course be extremely welcome. The middle slab - with the Chinese characters - is the one of greatest importance / difficulty.
If you download the photographs to your local PC, you can use a picture viewer to zoom in to see the characters in more detail.
The "giving (away)" of children has been explained in detail in another thread.
My attempted transcriptions:
For the English text, the dots (".") are not present, and are only there to preserve spacing, because the site seems to collapse multiple blanks into one blank.
A1 (left slab)
Notes:
1. All 3 sons were "given", not biological. Of the 3 only one was physically given, the other two were given in name only.
2. There were 4 biological daughters and one "given" daughter. TAN LEE SOO POEY was the daughter who was "given", hence the double surname - her original one LEE, with the TAN added when she was given. In real life, she spelled her name SOO POAY. She never lived with the Tan Hong Lim and Lim Seok Kee family, and was given in name only. Despite being given in name only, she took her position as the official eldest daughter of Tan Hong Lim and Lim Seok Kee, making the eldest biological daughter the "second sister", the second biological daughter the "third sister", etc. The four CHENG girls were biological daughters and had only the surname TAN. In real life, TAN CHENG POEY spelled her name CHENG POAY.
3. TAN CHENG HOCK was "given" to the (deceased) couple (when they were alive) directly to be their grandson. He was actually the biological son of one of the daughters of the couple (TAN CHENG LOOI above). She married a man with the surname of LIM, so her sons were all LIMs, except for this son, who was given directly to be the grandson of TAN HONG LIM, and hence had the surname TAN.
4. In the name KIM HIE, the "HIE" is pronounced "hai", analogous spelling to the English words "die", "lie", "pie", "tie", "vie". Apparently, this was a known convention in Penang (because it was so much under English influence?).
A2 (right slab)
Many of the figures on the last four lines are unclear, and have been reconstructed from facts which family members recall, combined with logical reasoning.
A3 (middle slab)
The text gravestone inscription is written in the traditional Chinese style of vertical columns, read from top to bottom. Presenting the two-dimensional inscription in single lines proved difficult. So, for convenience here, it is rendered in horizontal lines, reading from left to write. Within each sub-section, text which comes to the left on the gravestone inscription will be rendered before text which comes on the right. I hope the convention I've used is easy to understand: the "||" shows parallel fragments of text, and the "---" separates fragments which follow one another.
Top
山仰
[suann iong = village of origin]
Middle
顯 --- 妣淑枝林氏 || 考芳林陳公 --- 墓
The illustrious --- late Seok Kee, nee Lim's || late Hong Lim, master Tan's --- grave
Left
孝男 --- 國? 良 || 瑞生 || 琹銘
Filial sons --- Kok Leong || Swee Seng || Khim Beng
女 --- 清 --- 妙 || 蕊? or 蕾?
Daughters --- Cheng --- Beow || Looi
--- 清弟? || 清貝 || 思貝
--- Cheng Tee --- Cheng Poey --- Soo Poey
孫 --- 金吉 || 清??? 福 || 金海
Grandsons --- Kim Keat || Cheng Hock || Kim Hai
The "Cheng" was pronounced aspirated, but the character doesn't look to me like either of 清 or 青, and not even like any of the unasiprated 正, 政, and 貞.
Right
民國 --- 卅六 || 五一 --- 年/主? ---丁亥 二 || 壬寅 十二 --- 月 ---初三 || 卄四 ---日
[In the] --- 36th || 51st --- year of the Chinese Republic --- 1947, 2nd || 1962, 12th --- moon --- 3rd || 24th --- day
A4 (bottom slab)
禄夀福
Wealth, Longevity, [and] Good Fortune
They are buried in a single plot, at the "United Hokkien Cemeteries", Mt. Erskine, Penang, Malaysia.
There are 5 photographs associated with this grave:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... erview.jpg
A0 – overall picture of the grave, with me next to it.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... t_slab.jpg
A1 - slab on the left - English text giving the names of the sons, daughters, and grandsons of the deceased couple.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... t_slab.jpg
A2 - slab on the right - English text giving the names and death dates of the deceased couple, preceded by the words "IN LOVING MEMORY OF", and ending with "R.I.P."
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... e_slab.jpg
A3 - slab in the middle - Chinese text in four sub-sections:
i) Top sub-section (larger characters) - the place of origin of the deceased couple.
ii) Middle sub-section (larger characters) - the names of the deceased couple.
iii) Left sub-section (smaller characters) - the names of the sons, daughters, and grandsons of the deceased couple.
iv) Right sub-section (smaller characters) - the death dates of the deceased couple.
The text of this slab shares many of the characteristics of the middle slabs which other Forum members have posted here.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... m_slab.jpg
A4 - slab at the bottom - a standard three-character Chinese phrase.
I don't really think that much more information can be extracted out of the photographs, but everyone who feels up to the challenge is welcome to try. Any additional information (or corrections) would of course be extremely welcome. The middle slab - with the Chinese characters - is the one of greatest importance / difficulty.
If you download the photographs to your local PC, you can use a picture viewer to zoom in to see the characters in more detail.
The "giving (away)" of children has been explained in detail in another thread.
My attempted transcriptions:
For the English text, the dots (".") are not present, and are only there to preserve spacing, because the site seems to collapse multiple blanks into one blank.
A1 (left slab)
Code: Select all
......... SONS ...........
.... TAN SWEE SENG .......
........ KHIM BENG .......
........ KOK LEONG .......
...... DAUGHTERS .........
.. TAN LEE SOO POEY ......
...... CHENG BEOW ........
............ LOOI ........
............ POEY ........
............ TEE .........
....... GRANDSONS ........
.... TAN CHENG HOCK ......
........ KIM HIE .........
............ KEAT ........1. All 3 sons were "given", not biological. Of the 3 only one was physically given, the other two were given in name only.
2. There were 4 biological daughters and one "given" daughter. TAN LEE SOO POEY was the daughter who was "given", hence the double surname - her original one LEE, with the TAN added when she was given. In real life, she spelled her name SOO POAY. She never lived with the Tan Hong Lim and Lim Seok Kee family, and was given in name only. Despite being given in name only, she took her position as the official eldest daughter of Tan Hong Lim and Lim Seok Kee, making the eldest biological daughter the "second sister", the second biological daughter the "third sister", etc. The four CHENG girls were biological daughters and had only the surname TAN. In real life, TAN CHENG POEY spelled her name CHENG POAY.
3. TAN CHENG HOCK was "given" to the (deceased) couple (when they were alive) directly to be their grandson. He was actually the biological son of one of the daughters of the couple (TAN CHENG LOOI above). She married a man with the surname of LIM, so her sons were all LIMs, except for this son, who was given directly to be the grandson of TAN HONG LIM, and hence had the surname TAN.
4. In the name KIM HIE, the "HIE" is pronounced "hai", analogous spelling to the English words "die", "lie", "pie", "tie", "vie". Apparently, this was a known convention in Penang (because it was so much under English influence?).
A2 (right slab)
Code: Select all
............ IN ................
....... LOVING MEMORY ..........
............ OF ................
... MADAM LIM SEOK KEE .........
. DIED 3RD DAY 2ND MOON ........
......... 25.8.47 ..............
...... AGE 69 YEARS ............
... & MR TAN HONG LIM ..........
. DIED 24TH DAY 12TH MOON 1962 .
...... AGE 86 YEARS ............
........... R.I.P. .............A3 (middle slab)
The text gravestone inscription is written in the traditional Chinese style of vertical columns, read from top to bottom. Presenting the two-dimensional inscription in single lines proved difficult. So, for convenience here, it is rendered in horizontal lines, reading from left to write. Within each sub-section, text which comes to the left on the gravestone inscription will be rendered before text which comes on the right. I hope the convention I've used is easy to understand: the "||" shows parallel fragments of text, and the "---" separates fragments which follow one another.
Top
山仰
[suann iong = village of origin]
Middle
顯 --- 妣淑枝林氏 || 考芳林陳公 --- 墓
The illustrious --- late Seok Kee, nee Lim's || late Hong Lim, master Tan's --- grave
Left
孝男 --- 國? 良 || 瑞生 || 琹銘
Filial sons --- Kok Leong || Swee Seng || Khim Beng
女 --- 清 --- 妙 || 蕊? or 蕾?
Daughters --- Cheng --- Beow || Looi
--- 清弟? || 清貝 || 思貝
--- Cheng Tee --- Cheng Poey --- Soo Poey
孫 --- 金吉 || 清??? 福 || 金海
Grandsons --- Kim Keat || Cheng Hock || Kim Hai
The "Cheng" was pronounced aspirated, but the character doesn't look to me like either of 清 or 青, and not even like any of the unasiprated 正, 政, and 貞.
Right
民國 --- 卅六 || 五一 --- 年/主? ---丁亥 二 || 壬寅 十二 --- 月 ---初三 || 卄四 ---日
[In the] --- 36th || 51st --- year of the Chinese Republic --- 1947, 2nd || 1962, 12th --- moon --- 3rd || 24th --- day
A4 (bottom slab)
禄夀福
Wealth, Longevity, [and] Good Fortune
This is my attempted transcription of the inscriptions of "Grave B", the grave of Yew Geok Say, who was Tan Hong Lim’s mother. Tan Hong Lim's grave is "Grave A" above.
She is buried alone in a single plot, at the “United Hokkien Cemeteries”, Mt. Erskine, Penang, Malaysia.
There is only one section of inscriptions on the grave, the middle slab, with Chinese text. The left and right slabs are blank. There is hence only 1 photograph associated with this grave:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... l_slab.jpg
B1 - the slab in the middle, divided into four sub-sections
i) Top sub-section (larger characters) - the place of origin of the deceased.
ii) Middle sub-section (larger characters) - the name of the deceased.
iii) Left sub-section (smaller characters) - the names of the sons and daughters of the deceased.
iv) Right sub-section (smaller characters) - the death date of the deceased.
My attempted transcription:
Top
山仰
[suann iong = village of origin]
Middle
顯妣玉璽尤氏墓
The illustrious late Geok Say, nee Yew’s grave
Left
女||男 --- 陳 --- 嬌蓮 || 秀林 -- 等仝立石
Daughter || Son --- Tan --- Keow Lian || Hong Lim --- together put up this stone (grave)
Notes:
1. The lady buried here is the mother of 陳芳林. Perhaps the name Hong Lim was misheard as Hiong Lim, (hand)written as 香林, and then the 香 misread as 秀. It’s a slightly improbably series of jumps, but it does produce an explanation of why Tan Hong Lim’s name may be written like this on this grave. Alternatively (and more simply), the 芳 may simply have been misread as 秀.
2. The son Tan Hong Lim (芳林) died in his mid-80's in 1962, so he must have been very young when his mother died. (This is confirmed by the fact that his father went on to re-marry, and have another 5 sons and 4 daughters - more unlikely if the son had been a young adult). It is also known within the family that the daughter Keow Lian (嬌蓮, Tan Hong Lim's sister) was a few years older than he. This means that both children were below 10 years old at the time of their mother's death.
What is interesting in this context is that the line 女||男 --- 陳 --- 嬌蓮 || 秀林 -- 等仝立石. Clearly, being such young children, they would not have been able to arrange the erection of the grave, so the sentence must be seen as metaphorical / formulaic, rather than expressing an actual fact.
Right
光緒戊寅年孟冬
[Died] in the 戊寅 year of the reign of the Emperor Guangxu [1878], first month of Winter (10th lunar month)
She is buried alone in a single plot, at the “United Hokkien Cemeteries”, Mt. Erskine, Penang, Malaysia.
There is only one section of inscriptions on the grave, the middle slab, with Chinese text. The left and right slabs are blank. There is hence only 1 photograph associated with this grave:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~detlev/sim/graves ... l_slab.jpg
B1 - the slab in the middle, divided into four sub-sections
i) Top sub-section (larger characters) - the place of origin of the deceased.
ii) Middle sub-section (larger characters) - the name of the deceased.
iii) Left sub-section (smaller characters) - the names of the sons and daughters of the deceased.
iv) Right sub-section (smaller characters) - the death date of the deceased.
My attempted transcription:
Top
山仰
[suann iong = village of origin]
Middle
顯妣玉璽尤氏墓
The illustrious late Geok Say, nee Yew’s grave
Left
女||男 --- 陳 --- 嬌蓮 || 秀林 -- 等仝立石
Daughter || Son --- Tan --- Keow Lian || Hong Lim --- together put up this stone (grave)
Notes:
1. The lady buried here is the mother of 陳芳林. Perhaps the name Hong Lim was misheard as Hiong Lim, (hand)written as 香林, and then the 香 misread as 秀. It’s a slightly improbably series of jumps, but it does produce an explanation of why Tan Hong Lim’s name may be written like this on this grave. Alternatively (and more simply), the 芳 may simply have been misread as 秀.
2. The son Tan Hong Lim (芳林) died in his mid-80's in 1962, so he must have been very young when his mother died. (This is confirmed by the fact that his father went on to re-marry, and have another 5 sons and 4 daughters - more unlikely if the son had been a young adult). It is also known within the family that the daughter Keow Lian (嬌蓮, Tan Hong Lim's sister) was a few years older than he. This means that both children were below 10 years old at the time of their mother's death.
What is interesting in this context is that the line 女||男 --- 陳 --- 嬌蓮 || 秀林 -- 等仝立石. Clearly, being such young children, they would not have been able to arrange the erection of the grave, so the sentence must be seen as metaphorical / formulaic, rather than expressing an actual fact.
Right
光緒戊寅年孟冬
[Died] in the 戊寅 year of the reign of the Emperor Guangxu [1878], first month of Winter (10th lunar month)