Standard hokkien

[Andrew]

The minnan readings on the dictionary on this site sadly no longer work - I don't know why.

Have you tried http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/tw/index.htm

[niuc]

The minnan readings on the dictionary on this site sadly no longer work - I don't know why.

Have you tried http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/tw/index.htm

Thank you, Andrew, for the link!

[Ah-bin]

We can only take the pronounciation by the Xiamen news casters as the standard.[/quote

http://gb.cri.cn/chinese_radio/minnan.htm

Note that Amoy has merged j and l into l-. So even if they say "tu"for "pig" they most definitely do not say "jit" 日 so what you win in one varient, you'll lose in another.

What i am interested is the standard minnan which every minnan should strive to speak (although I know its going to be a miracle given the stubbornness of most people) . It doesn't matter which variant i'm from. If people still cling to their variant, minnan is going to be a dead dialect in the future amidst the onslaught of mandarin.

If you're looking for a standard to follow, you might as well go for Taiwanese, it has support in the schools, an almost standardised system of writing, and (unlike Amoy) no governmental restrictions on broadcasting time or genre. Also, the TV is of much better quality and bound to be watched by more people, so unless PRC law changes suddenly, Taiwanese will win by default as standard, and there's nothing an individual can do about it.

PRC language law translated into English.
http://www.asianlii.org/cn/legis/cen/laws/ssawcll414/

[SimL]

Hi Ah-bin,

Very interesting! Thanks very much for posting this, doubly so for finding the link of an English translation, for poor sods like me who wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination have been able to deal with the (formal) Mandarin version!

I'm posting the extract below as being the most relevant to the discussion in this thread:

Article 16 Where the relevant provisions of this Chapter are concerned, local dialects may be used under the following circumstances:

(1) when State functionaries really need to use them in the performance of official duties;

(2) where they are used in broadcasting with the approval of the broadcasting and television administration under the State Council or of the broadcasting and television department at the provincial level;

(3) where they are needed in traditional operas, films and TV programs and other forms of art; and

(4) where their use is really required in the publishing, teaching and research.

[xng]

Are there any standardisation process/movement going on in Mainland china and Taiwan so that both regions speak the same dialect ?

If so, it will go a long way towards foreigners (and natives) learning minnan .

[calibre2001]

I would have thought Taiwanese would be "the standard" since it is the only one with any legal status, and the only one made compulsory in schools.

If you want to learn Amoy Hokkien properly then you'll need the following two books:

閩南話教程 (17 RMB)
閩南話口語 (12 RMB)
both by 林寶卿 They both come with a CD. So cheap!

You'll also need to learn the MInnan Fangyan Pinyin Fang'an 閩南方言拼音方案 to be able to use them properly.
There is a new dictionary from Mandarin to Amoy with a blue cover, but I forget its name. I mention this one because it uses the same pinyin system and you can use it to look up all the readings for the characters that you are wondering about.

None of the other (English) books that use the terms "Amoy Hokkien" actually teach what is spoken now in Amoy.

Hi,

Those are very interesting recommendations. May I ask how you ordered these books? Which website? Presumably directly from China? Are online purchases from China tricky>?

[xng]

Hi,

Those are very interesting recommendations. May I ask how you ordered these books? Which website? Presumably directly from China? Are online purchases from China tricky>?

Good question. Does amazon.com carry them ?

Or are there any bookshops in malaysia/singapore which do sell them ?

[calibre2001]

Hi I've checked with other forums. The main problem with amazon China (or with buying online from China whilst abroad) seems to be the payment bit, in particular payments with 'foreign' credit cards are an issue. I've had this problem even while travelling in China itself/.The best way is to have a China credit card. Another option is to buy the same book from HK or TW bookshops or source locally in your respective country.

For the time being I found some Harvard Hokkien learning videos
http://www.youku.com/playlist_show/id_3421992.html

I don't think this beats watching Taiwan talkshows with plenty of colloquial Hokkien thrown though

[Ah-bin]

Sorry I haven't been around for a while. These books are rather easy to find in China, but not elsewhere. You could try a Taiwanese bookshop that sells PRC books 成品書店 (Eslite books). If you know someone who is going to China you can find them both the 書城 in Canton on the second floor - there were loads of them there in July when I went.

[aokh1979]

Drop by for the TV query xng asked.

There's indeed a Hokkien drama entirely shot in Xiamen, a co-production between Xiamen and Taiwan. Most people in the series speak Xiamen Hokkien. You can search for it. I watched a few episodes on TV but I am not sure if it's available in Youtube. I live in Xiamen...... ^.^

一定愛幸福