Tadpolenese points out that some morphemes are 阳去 in Coanciu vs 阳上 in Tiociu. He also says,
(Without explaining why.)This discrepancy is a problem of Teochew, not a problem of Quanzhou.
http://www.tadpolenese.com/theory/quanz ... yang-shang
So ... 馬禮我 would've been 阳上 pre-Tang, eventually converging w/ 阴上 in most languages.Now I read it somewhere (in 王力 perhaps) that in pre-T'ang times 陽上 words with clear initials went over to 陰去, and those with muddy intials stayed as 陽上, eventually converging as a single 上 in most languages. In Cantonese the only 陽上 left are those with semi muddy initials 馬禮我
What about Holo, then? 馬禮我 are 阴上 in Coanciu even though there is still a robust 阳上 category.
What about 在, for example? Was it "originally" 阳去, as it is in Cantonese today? Or was it originally 阳上, as in Coanciu?
Would 市 and 會 also be part of that group? Also, wouldn't 近 have had a muddy initial?All of these originally had muddy initials....and I've just though of an exception to the Cantonese rule in 近 - this has stayed a 陽上 tone in what is left of the older Cantonese colloquial stratum.