For crying out loud! I'm sick of people who continuously play the race card! Why do you feel so insecure about your racial character, eh? I'm not prepared to continue going on discussing this with one who ignores the wider picture, one who refuses to look at this objectively. You find the term 'gweilao' (One who resembles a ghost/spirit) offensive, but you're ready to deem that spoken compound utterly unacceptable without understanding the language. A GREAT MANY words in spoken Cantonese are made from single words such as GWEI, and other words when used in certain ways THOSE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND the language and take each word's meaning as it is think it vulgar and offensive, when to somebody who has studied the language and culture thoroughly would deem them otherwise. You form the extreme latter minority, methinks. I suppose the term 'Holy Ghost' should be changed for a better (PC) alternative then? Because, Ghost used in this sense would be utterly blasphemous... we can't have people making an association between the Western ghost who is usually malevolent and the Holy Ghost, now, can we?
You talk of whiteness... are people of Anglo-European descent really /white/? No, that's right, they're not. Don't you find it offensive? -i mean, afterall, what does one usually associate with being white? White is a sickly colour, one becomes starck white afterall, in Chinese culture white is even the colour of death... my to be desribed white to me seems entirely offensive! At to describe one of Afro-carribean descent black? Well, that's an entirely different kettle of fish!! SERIOUSLY. I see no qualms with these terms to describe people of Afro or Anglo descent, because through POPULAR USAGE in the EVERYDAY LANGUAGE of English, they've become NORMALISED and people usually don't attach such INSIGNIFICANCE to them.
And on the slit thing. Some Chinese/Japanese/Korean's eyes are oddly 'slitty', but then, others aren't. Some are 'afflicted' others aren't. But then, i don't really care... I'm not insecure about my racial heritage, my racial character, or myself at large.
learning cantonese-my experience
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Kiko-chan
Re: learning cantonese-my experience
: I am today fluent in cantonese. All my cantones was learnt here amonst the chinese community in Australia. I immersed myself in cantonese culture, became a waiter at a yum cha restuarant and as customer service in a chinese bank.
First of, from what I heard about you in other posts I just have to say that I don't doubt your cantonese speaking skills (as others here).
: I find a world of problems in learning cantonese. they include:
: 1. Speaking with the right tones is easy when you are calm but is difficult when you are shy or have to shout..
The only thing you can do in this case is buy some audio book lessons and repeat after it shouting, or with a shy voice (err, not sure why you need that)
: 2. people always say "you can speak cantonese! wow". it sounds nice but try having it said to you by a stranger in a bus while you chat on a mobile and it is very embarrassing, especially when it happens 20 times a day
That's the point:
Chinese in general have many prejudices towards other cultures, for instance most chinese when they hear a beginner talking cantonese/mandarin they will most probably think "She/He'll never learn". If you start talking fluently, they feel fear (as if you had just taken the only bath towel
they were holding up to)."you can speak cantonese" is from what I know one of those sentences someone can use to express their disgust without being unpolite. (not to be taken too seriously).
: 3. The cantonese language is full of explicit and racist language, while racial prejudice is entrenched in chinese culture.
Learn about the chinese culture! The western influence has changed and damaged culture in many points and it's natural for a language to inherit the feelings of a time period.
Now you said you're very fluent in cantonese, you might have noticed that this is a language that uses different terms to describe things rather than having different words/expressions for particular people/situations.
example: a gardener is in cantonese "the king of garden", a pickpoket "A purse friend" these are in most cases funny terms and that's the way cantonese interact between themselves. They love making fools of each other just for fun & for no reason at all. This is the caracter of the language and is not to be taken too seriously because they don't mean it that way (most of them)
:
: I have much experience with cantonese speakers, too much to write here, but if you need any advice or have questions send me an email.
: happynews69@hotmail.com
First of, from what I heard about you in other posts I just have to say that I don't doubt your cantonese speaking skills (as others here).
: I find a world of problems in learning cantonese. they include:
: 1. Speaking with the right tones is easy when you are calm but is difficult when you are shy or have to shout..
The only thing you can do in this case is buy some audio book lessons and repeat after it shouting, or with a shy voice (err, not sure why you need that)
: 2. people always say "you can speak cantonese! wow". it sounds nice but try having it said to you by a stranger in a bus while you chat on a mobile and it is very embarrassing, especially when it happens 20 times a day
That's the point:
Chinese in general have many prejudices towards other cultures, for instance most chinese when they hear a beginner talking cantonese/mandarin they will most probably think "She/He'll never learn". If you start talking fluently, they feel fear (as if you had just taken the only bath towel
they were holding up to)."you can speak cantonese" is from what I know one of those sentences someone can use to express their disgust without being unpolite. (not to be taken too seriously).
: 3. The cantonese language is full of explicit and racist language, while racial prejudice is entrenched in chinese culture.
Learn about the chinese culture! The western influence has changed and damaged culture in many points and it's natural for a language to inherit the feelings of a time period.
Now you said you're very fluent in cantonese, you might have noticed that this is a language that uses different terms to describe things rather than having different words/expressions for particular people/situations.
example: a gardener is in cantonese "the king of garden", a pickpoket "A purse friend" these are in most cases funny terms and that's the way cantonese interact between themselves. They love making fools of each other just for fun & for no reason at all. This is the caracter of the language and is not to be taken too seriously because they don't mean it that way (most of them)
:
: I have much experience with cantonese speakers, too much to write here, but if you need any advice or have questions send me an email.
: happynews69@hotmail.com
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Huatou
"Gweilo" is used commonly by Gweilo!
I enjoyed the much heat debate...just want to point out that even some westerners call themselve "gweilo" freely (and know the meaning of it). The fact is, this term doesn't carry the same racist element anymore. On the other hand, 'chink' is widely considered as a racist term.
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irodotos antoniou
Re: learning cantonese-my experience
: Here's a test about whether rasicm is entrenched in Chinese culture. Go home with a white friend and see what your parents call him or her. If its guailo, guaiyan, guaimooi etc how can you not say that racism is entrenched in the Cantonese language? Just because its common does not make it acceptable. It is true that in English we do have a large number of racist slurs but it generally recognised that these are bad. How many Chinese do you think think twice before using these expressions; from my experience very few.
please sent me some information
please sent me some information
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keldjoran
Re: My above posting
: 2. people always say "you can speak cantonese! wow". it sounds nice but try having it said to you by a stranger in a bus while you chat on a mobile and it is very embarrassing, especially when it happens 20 times a day
wow this turned into a huge debate
my friend has just started teaching me cantonese and i've started using it in bakeries and stuff (i'm white american - and i have no problem calling myself or someone else white and have no problem with someone calling me ghost-like)
i dont get that sentence said to me, i get ones like "wow, you're so smart." or "it's good that you know chinese" and i like getting the completements, it drives me to learn more. and if you think about it, if an english speaking native was to live in another country (one where english isn't taught in schools) then i'm sure you'd say things like that to them if they started speaking english. my sifu (i take wushu) does say that to me though ("wow you speak cantonese") but she says it like "be like him and try and learn cantonese." and i think everyone should know a little of the languages of the ethnic groups around them, cause its not fair of people to expect everyone to learn english and have english speakers learn nothing else (this applies to all groups - not just english speakers).
i think pc should be used, but just not when ur speaking to friends and people close to you cause it wont really matter. pc should only being used when it counts - like a presidential debate or something
wow this turned into a huge debate
my friend has just started teaching me cantonese and i've started using it in bakeries and stuff (i'm white american - and i have no problem calling myself or someone else white and have no problem with someone calling me ghost-like)i dont get that sentence said to me, i get ones like "wow, you're so smart." or "it's good that you know chinese" and i like getting the completements, it drives me to learn more. and if you think about it, if an english speaking native was to live in another country (one where english isn't taught in schools) then i'm sure you'd say things like that to them if they started speaking english. my sifu (i take wushu) does say that to me though ("wow you speak cantonese") but she says it like "be like him and try and learn cantonese." and i think everyone should know a little of the languages of the ethnic groups around them, cause its not fair of people to expect everyone to learn english and have english speakers learn nothing else (this applies to all groups - not just english speakers).
i think pc should be used, but just not when ur speaking to friends and people close to you cause it wont really matter. pc should only being used when it counts - like a presidential debate or something