More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Discussions on the Hokkien (Minnan) language.
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Mark Yong
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by Mark Yong »

I am going to approach this from a purely spoken colloquial perspective (read: how I would normally say it, or how I foresee others would say it). Again, all open for correction from more native/savvy Hokkien speakers than myself! :oops:

The tip of something: I might settle for (object) cìam.

Extension (phone): Interesting one. Off the top of my head, I would probably phrase it interrogatively as 電話線幾號 tìan-ŭa-sŭaⁿ kūi-hò or just 幾號線 kūi-hò sŭaⁿ (if the reference to a telephone is already obvious from context).

Extra: 復加 kòh-kàe. So, your example sentence would become something like this: 伊人復加送我五本册i-lang koh-kae sang wa gO pu chaeh. (“On top of that, they also gave me five books.”) I would personally reserve 另外 leng-ua to specifically mean “separately” / “outside the existing scope”, which has a subtly different meaning from “extra”.

To decorate: 擺秀 pài-sûi (mind the provisional character for sûi).

To defeat someone, beat someone at something: I would settle for just 撲贏 phàh-iáⁿ. An alternative that I hear quite often is 撲倒(伊) phàh-tô (i).

To delay: 拖(較)久 thūa (khā) kû.

Of course, I am aware that there are much more elegant ways to say them in “pedigree” Hokkien, but in a daily “on-the-street” context, the average listener would probably find them contrived and artificial (to note that my usual standard points of reference are coffee-shop conversations among old Penang Hokkien uncles, currently in the 60’s to 90’s age group, and typically (but not necessarily) Chinese-educated).
Last edited by Mark Yong on Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ah-bin
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by Ah-bin »

Of course, I am aware that there are much more elegant ways to say them in “pedigree” Hokkien, but in a daily “on-the-street” context, the average listener would probably find them contrived and artificial (to note that my usual standard points of reference are coffee-shop conversations among old Penang Hokkien uncles, currently in the 60’s to 90’s age group, and typically (but not necessarily) Chinese-educated).
Thanks Mark, these are exactly the sort of words I'm interested in. I am not interested in literary style ones for the dictionary, or anything remotely chhim. the dictionary is intended to be merely an entranceway to the delights that lie beyond. Now it's 213 pages long. Only 87 to go before I stop!
SimL
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by SimL »

Thank goodness Mark was able to give some answers, because I'm afraid that my score on this list of 10 is the lowest of all of them so far.

The only one I can do is "tuah4", which means (a single) "drawer".

For "delay" I would use a number of circumlocutions, all based on "tan2" (= "wait").

E.g.

1. I was going to buy that book tomorrow, but now I think I'll delay that a bit => wa thau-seng si siauN kong ma-cai be khi be hi-pun cheh, tapi tong-kim kha siauN kong tan ma-nia ku cia be; literally: I head-born(?) is think say tomorrow want go buy that book, but now more think say wait little long-time only-then buy.

2a. He was going to come tomorrow but has been delayed => i thau-seng si ma-cai be lai e, tapi tong-kim be tan ma-nia ku cia be lai; literally: he head-born(?) is tomorrow want come, but now want wait little long-time only-then want come.

2b. [If the delay is imposed from outside, rather than a choice of the person] He was going to come tomorrow but has been delayed because his car is not working => i thau-seng si ma-cai be lai e, tapi tong-kim be liau, in-ui i e chia phaiN; literally: he head-born(?) is tomorrow want come, but now can't anymore, because his car broken.

So, sorry, but no real word for "to delay".
Ah-bin
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by Ah-bin »

So, sorry, but no real word for "to delay".
No need to be, sometimes there aren't exact words for things, just different ways of expressing the same concept. That is also the kind of thing I am looking for. Thank you so much for your sentence examples too!
SimL
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by SimL »

Hi Ah-bin,

Glad the sample sentences are of some use. I always find them very useful for Mandarin, so I try to supply them for Hokkien as well.
SimL wrote:The only one I can do is "tuah4", which means (a single) "drawer".
I meant to write "thuah4". I'm definitely doing TOO MUCH Mandarin (i.e. pinyin) these days. :shock:.
Ah-bin
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by Ah-bin »

Since things are going so nice and quickly now, I might try another ten!

1) Ferry - I think in most cases the English loan "ferry" is used

2) Fortress - siâⁿ 城 perhaps, as in Âng-mô•-siâⁿ 紅毛城 for Fort Cornwallis?

3) To frown

4) To guess - siāuⁿ-khoàⁿ 想看?

5) Fungus - kó• 菇 - I guess this is a general term for any kind of fungus?

6) To go on strike

7) ice cream

8 ) To greet somebody - I know chheng-ho• 稱呼 which is more like "to address" than "to greet", then there is the greeting of someone off a train or plane, which is chih 接

9) To guarantee, a guarantee - this will be pó- (保-) something I am sure!

10) To hinder, or block - suppose this could be paraphrased with "hō• lâng mài chò" i.e. "to stop someone from doing something"

Thanks again to everyone for all your help!
Mark Yong
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by Mark Yong »

SimL wrote:
…because I'm afraid that my score on this list of 10 is the lowest of all of them so far.
Not at all, Sim. We all complement one another to provide insights. Up until you provided the word for ‘drawer’, I had absolutely no idea how to say it in Hokkien! (I might have guessed it was something along the lines of (something).

It is interesting to know that the Taiwan MOE’s assigned character for writing thuah4 is , i.e. the word for ‘drawer’ in Standard Chinese – though, I am not sure how they reconciled the 反切 reading for the character, i.e. 他計切, which would have come out as theh/thueh. Perhaps it is one of those cases of gradual phonetic evolution.
SimL wrote:
… tan ma-nia ku…
This is an interesting insight, Sim. Because I nowadays consciously think of 目𥍉(仔)久 băk-nî-(a)-kû as just that – literally “in a blink of an eye” – I tend to reserve its use in much shorter temporal contexts, e.g. ‘in a second’, ‘in a moment’, ‘in a short while’. For protracted time periods, I would tend to use 較晚 khā-băn.
SimL wrote:
Well, it's only my usage, which might be "incorrect" (or usage may have changed since the time that I was living there). Could you check with your wife?
I asked my wife. She is not entirely sure, but she reckons ‘blanket’ is either 毛氈 mÒ-tsīen or just phŭe.
Ah-bin wrote:
Fungus - kó• 菇 - I guess this is a general term for any kind of fungus?
On that note, there is a specific term for ‘moss’, i.e. 青苔 tshàe-thí.
Last edited by Mark Yong on Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ah-bin
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by Ah-bin »

Number nine I just happened upon a minute ago in the Johnny Chee book. It's pó-ke• 保家!
AndrewAndrew
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by AndrewAndrew »

Ah-bin wrote: 8 ) To greet somebody - I know chheng-ho• 稱呼 which is more like "to address" than "to greet", then there is the greeting of someone off a train or plane, which is chih 接
The normal word in my family would be simply 叫 kio7 for greeting elders.
AndrewAndrew
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Re: More words...about 300 I can't track down.

Post by AndrewAndrew »

Ah-bin wrote: 4) Extra - I suppose one could use leng-oa 另外 or something with koh to express this. An extra cost; they gave me five extra books perhaps "I lang leng-oa sang wa go• pun chhe•h"?
Extra in the sense of excess would be chhun1. Otherwise 加 kE1, or 復加 koh4-kE1, as Mark has said.
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