"standard" hokkien

[hong]

I have given this bookshop web address long time ago but I find it by just typing in the address www.sunyata.com.cn will be a problem
www.sunyata.com.cn/query.php?catid=5 will work
Too many books indiretly related to min languages that can be helpful.We have to be a rich guy rather taking about talent.

[niuc]

Niu,
Since Lim Kianhui didn't say people in china are using phinn for cheap,could it be we miusue this word from its only correct meaning of taking advantage of othe people?As long as poeple in china are using it as this thing is phinn,we are safe to use it..

Hong, I am not sure if people in China still use phi*1 to mean "cheap" but in 廈門方言詞典, phi*1-thau5 偏頭 can mean "advantage, benefit". May be in certain context, it can mean "cheap". In Douglas' dictionary, 'u7-phi*1-thau5' also mean "to get things very cheap", 'bo5-phi*1-thau5' can mean "not managing to get a thing cheap". In Mandarin, 便宜 pian2yi2 also means both "cheap" and "to take advantage of".

[hong]

Dear Niu,
I just bought that Singapore minnan dict in KL this morning by Prof.Chiu after two years of its publication.
It mentions 偏 for cheap is just pure singapore invention .china means 欺負,佔便宜。

[niuc]

Thank you Hong, for the info. It seems that this usage [phi*1 偏 to mean "cheap"] is quite widespread, not limited to Singapore. People in my hometown have been using it. Unless my memory does play a trick on me, I do remember hearing this usage in Taiwanese TV programs.

[tangoloonokongo]

Hi Guys

I do know that the Penang Hokkien that I speak don't use 'phi' for cheap, but 'pan gi'. In my hometown if someone uses 'phi' it would be the Teochews, not the Hokkiens.

I have always argued with Singaporeans about the soup spoon in Hokkien. As usual Penang Hokkiens call the small soup spoon 'thau kiong' instead of 'thng si'. 'Thng si' is actually the soup ladle, not the soup spoon which is much smaller than the soup ladle.

Some people have always argued that Penang Hokkien is adulterated - as a matter of fact, after some years in China and surveying the languages of the littoral states of Southesat Asia and East China Sea, I can see how wrong they were.

There is a new book called "1421" published in English and written by an Englishman, we all should read and understand the possibility of the spread of Hokkien round the world though this book only desribes the voyages of the Zheng He and his admirals.

For those who are really interested in getting good Hokkien books, may I suggest, we look for writers who has travelled far and wide from China. i don't quite trust people claims to be Hokkiens but have ever a foot outside China. That is why I had always said in the first article, the overseas Chinese are a rich and potent source of Hokkien:

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[hong]

I think it is helpful to buy this dict because Prof.Chiu did add some benzi compare to his xiamen dict.
move-chhiau5 is hand radical +焦=推.
Prof.Chiu says it should be baidu for numbers 199,943,etc except 1,2,7.I don't understand.
I think they left some 副詞 adverb into another grammar book because we cannot find sua=世落来，bang不,etc.

[hong]

Dear Niu,
I just read an article from China that in chuanchiu city and hui-an 比較句 can be with 過 like cantonese。The author is not famous like Prof.Chiu.He didn't mention other chuanchiu area and tongan.Prof.Chiu's article 廈門話比較句 says it can't be with 過。Also if we say it without 較 ka ,people can misunderstood us.
Two years ago I did ask you is that true every minnan say 閩南as ban-lam . The correct answer should be chuanchiu people use wendu for 閩 =bin5-lam.

[hong]

I find that Prof.林華東of anxi origin uses 逝 as chua3 for 次。He based his theory on old dict 行也去也。
走一逝
冊e正算第三逝

[niuc]

Hi Hong

Thanks a lot for the good information! So now I know that we are not alone in using ker3 過 for comparison.

I think 逝 is more suitable for cua7 [tsua7] than 踐 .

About 閩南 ban5/bin5-lam5, actually I have never heard people in my hometown using this term. We always call ourself hok4-kian3-lang5 福建人 (Hokkien people), never ban5/bin5-lam5-lang5 閩南人. I also noticed that outside Taiwan, virtually no Hokkien calls himself Holo/Hoklo.

My father told me that he read/heard that 閩 ban5 was related to 蠻 ban5 (Barbarian in Southern China -> ca. 2000 years ago??). He said Han Chinese (then living in Northern China) used it as a derogatory term for tribes then living in South-eastern China. Recently I read that the element 虫 in 閩 actually signified snake since those tribes using snake as their totem. If not mistaken, most of original Min tribes living in Fujian were deported to area around Jiangsu (near Shanghai) after their kingdom fell (during Han dynasty?? -> sorry for my incomplete history ). May be we are descendants of Han & remaining Min tribes....

[niuc]

Hi Hong

Thanks a lot for the good information! So now I know that we are not alone in using ker3 過 for comparison.

I think 逝 is more suitable for cua7 [tsua7] than 踐 .

About 閩南 ban5/bin5-lam5, actually I have never heard people in my hometown using this term. We always call ourself hok4-kian3-lang5 福建人 (Hokkien people), never ban5/bin5-lam5-lang5 閩南人. I also noticed that outside Taiwan, virtually no Hokkien calls himself Holo/Hoklo.

My father told me that he read/heard that 閩 ban5 was related to 蠻 ban5 (Barbarian in Southern China -> ca. 2000 years ago??). He said Han Chinese (then living in Northern China) used it as a derogatory term for tribes then living in South-eastern China. Recently I read that the element 虫 in 閩 actually signified snake since those tribes using snake as their totem. If not mistaken, most of original Min tribes living in Fujian were deported to area around Jiangsu (near Shanghai) after their kingdom fell (during Han dynasty?? -> sorry for my incomplete history ). May be we are descendants of Han & remaining Min tribes....