More words...about 300 I can't track down.

[Mark Yong]

AndrewAndrew wrote:
Extra in the sense of excess would be chhun1.

While we are on the topic of chhun1, would the character for it happen to be 賰 or 伸? Just did a search through the Forum, and it appears that this has not been discussed before.

Article expounding the possibilities:
http://140.111.56.95/hanji/annesia/pdf/ ... 464pdf.pdf

[Mark Yong]

Okay, now I am confused. Just spoke to a friend from Penang, and she says that as far as she has known all her life, 被單 phŭe-tūaⁿ refers to ‘blanket’, whereas 褥仔𠖫 jìok-a-khàm refers to ‘bed-sheet’ (literally ‘mattress cover’).

So, Sim - it looks like you were right after all!

[SimL]

So, Sim - it looks like you were right after all!

Thanks for giving me credit Mark, but I plead my usual relativism that there is probably just "different usage", rather than "right" or "wrong" . Of course, some forms may be more common than others. I'll ask my parents about the "-kham" rather than "-ta" for "bedsheet".

In the 10+ years that I've been posting and reading here, I've come to realise that some of my so-called Penang Hokkien is phrases and terms I've picked up from my mother, who, despite the fact that she speaks Penang Hokkien extremely well (i.e. with undetectable accent), still uses some phrases which are not Penang Hokkien at all, because she only learnt it when she married my father. For example, it was only when I was doing my family oral history project that I discovered that what I have always called "mi7-lam5" - a form of egg noodles which, while being basically fried, is still very soggy, with a lot of gravy ("lam5" as in "pour fluid over") - is actually called "lam5-mi7". My Dad told me that "mi7-lam5" was a misconception on the part of my Mum, which she had never managed to shake, but nobody else calls it this!

This is why, when I make statements about Penang Hokkien usage, I try to think back to how my great-aunts and their children (usage "uncontaminated" by other forms of Hokkien) spoke. But then, this produces also slightly "distorted" image, because they were very Baba!

I like one of your definitions best: something about "coffee shop usage in the areas off Penang Road and Maxwell Road" (I'm paraphrasing massively).

PS. I'll have to check with my parents about my usage of "ma-nia" for the longer periods. Once you pointed it out, it didn't seem as appropriate as I originally thought. It might take a while though, as I won't be speaking to them this weekend.

[Mark Yong]

The phrase ‘ma-nia-ku’ / 目𥍉（仔）久 băk-nî-(a)-kû brings back a rather amusing memory from my previous working life in Penang, which still has me in stitches whenever I think about it (actual names of persons not revealed in the interest of protecting privacy).

There was a metal machinist in my Design/Engineering department who was asked by an engineer from the Production team to machine out a dowel pin (used for accurately locating and mounting two mating pieces together - the dowel pin being the ’male‘ and the mating hole being the ’female‘).

Now, dowel pins are typically machined to be short and with their diameters slightly on the slim side (relative to the mating hole) to allow for a good fit in case of machining inaccuracies and/or mis-alignment - which the machinist duly pointed out to him. However, our smart-alec engineer insisted to the machinist that he wanted it ‘long and fat’. Okay, fine.

As expected, the dowel pin received by the engineer did not fit the mating hole on his steel plate. So, back he went to the machinist to ask for another dowel pin to be machined - this this, ‘short and thin’. The machinist was not at his desk at that time, so the engineer left him a voicemail.

Imagine the fury of the machinist of being told that he had to do the same task twice. He picked up the telephone and called the engineer, shouting:

『汝當今愛何物鬼？ 目𥍉（仔）久愛長，目𥍉（仔）久愛短，目𥍉（仔）久愛肥，目𥍉（仔）久愛㾪？ 講話轉來轉去像徦吉靈仔尪公，汝較猛過來即⽙！』
Lu tong-kim ai ha-mih kui? ma-ni’a-ku ai tng, ma-ni’a-ku ai teh, ma-ni’a-ku ai pui, ma-ni’a-ku ai san? kOng-ua tsuan-lai tsuan-khi siang-ka keat-ling-a ang-kOng, lu kha-maeh koe-lai tsit-peng!

(I trust the senior and more astute Hokkien Forumers will be able to figure out the above - if not, PM me for details!)

The funny incident aside, I thought the above example was a good illustration of how the term 目𥍉（仔）久 băk-nî-(a)-kû was used in the context of ‘from one moment to the next’.

[amhoanna]

Good stuff, very menarik.

Mark, I couldn't figure out the blank in your sentence. Why not come out with the romanization? Hardly anybody can read it anyway.

thâuseng = 頭先 (HEAD-FIRST)

[Mark Yong]

Lanit-ko,

Okay, blanks temporarily removed!

[AndrewAndrew]

By the way, I forgot to tell you guys about a recent holiday I had in Lake Toba over Raya. The place was filled with Medan Hokkien tourists. Practically everyone was talking Hokkien, from young children to the elderly. I did talk to one or two young people and apart from differences in loanwords - the use of the Malay "dari" to mean "from" was one thing I noticed - it was very like Penang Hokkien. If these people had been Penang Hokkiens, a large proportion would have been speaking Mandarin or English, particularly to the young children.

[Ah-bin]

Thanks again for everyone's answers, here is another ten:

1) To include/including

2) To keep a secret siu pì-bít 收秘密?

3) Kidney beans I have "Âng-tāu" 紅豆 for red beans, but the ones in the ice kacang were definitely not kidney beans.

4) To last, endure

5) To lay the table

6) To load a car or boat

7) Lotus seeds (I have koa ji from somewhere, but that sound more like the dried watermelon seeds that some people find so tasty but I find a bit annoying.)

8 ) A lid Is this just "Khàm" by any chance?

9) Magazine Taiwanese Hokkien has Cháp-chì 雜誌 like Cantonese and Mandarin

10) Mailman/postman is this Sàng-phe-ê-lâng 送批个儂?

Thnaks again in advacen for your suggestions and comments.

[SimL]

@Mark: thanks for the great story! .

@amhoanna: thanks for 頭先.

@Ah-bin:

Only 2, sorry.

7) Lotus seeds (I have koa ji from somewhere, but that sound more like the dried watermelon seeds that some people find so tasty but I find a bit annoying.)

"lian5-ci2" (蓮子), as "lian5-hua1" (蓮花) is lotus-flower.

There's also "lian5-ngau7" (蓮藕) which is "lotus-root". Very common in my youth, makes a wonderful soup with pork ribs. For the past 3-4 years available in health food shops here in the Netherlands.

8 ) A lid Is this just "Khàm" by any chance?

That's what I would say, yes.

[SimL]

I wouldn't use just "lâng" instead of "lâng-khe•h", because things are displayed not just to guests, but to passing strangers as well.

Oops. I just noticed this typo. It should have read "I would use just "lâng" instead of "lâng-khe•h", because things are displayed not just to guests, but to passing strangers as well. " But Mark has provided a better / more precise word for "to display" anyway, so perhaps this update is less relevant.