Philippine Hokkien

[hong]

I must add that my grandfather past away when I was only 4 ,so I cannot tell you how he speaks chuanchiu.My granmother was born in malaysia and the trip to chuanchiu with tourist company didn't pay a visit to dehua at all.

[Yisheng]

Hong: I think I understand why you are so insistent on the issue of speaking Hokkien the way your grandparents speak. Question, does your whole family, including your grandmother speak with the dehua or lam ua accent?

All four of my grandparents were born in Penang. My great-grandfathers came from an5 khe1 and lam5 ua*1 respectively. But both my great-grandmothers were nyonyas and they spoke the Penang/baba style hokkien. Because my great-grandfathers were rarely at home, my grandparents mostly interacted with my great-grandmothers and thus they did not pick up the chuan chiu type hokkien. This in turn goes down the generations and thus I speak Penang Hokkien. In fact, all of my relatives speak Penang Hokkien so ya, that's why I think it is normal for me to speak Penang Hokkien.

Yisheng

[hong]

That is why I say it is very rare to find a chiangchiu in Malaysia.I read a lot of chinese newspaper but only find one death announcement recently in Kwonghua,that is even misprinted as haiteng.I find only one minzhong and minbei for many years of searching.Is that prof.Khoo kay kim is a chiangchiu?
I only know that my grandfather say Dibe for bicycle and for chiang chiu is kongbengchia as you know but ka chia seems only for xiamen.
I think northern malaysia minnan people speak 50% chuan and 50% chiang but not purely chiangchiu mix with malay.If I speak pure chiangchiu with those iang words,people will say I am a teochiunang but not minnan.People in northern malaysia still not used to pure chiangchiu language.

[Yisheng]

I think Penang Hokkien is a mix of Chiangchiu and Amoy inclusive of a smattering of malay. I don't see the chuanchiu influence in the way I speak to my family and relatives. This is because I had difficulty picking up the way people in JB and Singapore speak Hokkien as it is more chuanchiu influenced here, the vowels especially.

This reminds me of the way my family speaks to my neighbour, who speaks the pure eng2 chun1 way. Very early when we moved here, there was once when she wanted to return some books she borrowed from us and she was telling my grandmother that she wanted to return them. But because the chuanchiu way of saying che is different from the chiangchiu way, it took my grandma almost a whole minute before she understood what my neighbour meant. This was one incident that I remember because the books were mine!

Yisheng

[Andrew Yong]

Yisheng:

上 is siong in literary Hokkien, so perhaps phrases like siong-te is literary rather than Amoy? The name for the country end of Jelutong Rd is documented as "Siang-tong" (上洞)

Similarly Hong Kong St is listed as "Hiang-kang-ke". Certainly I have only ever heard Hiang-kang and not Hiong-kang

We also say say jiang (shout) and not jiong.

[hong]

Note there are so many sounds are the smae in xiamen and chuanchiu.But when are those xiamen people came to Penang and north malaysia?The population of xiamen,jinmen is very small,just 1.5 m now.I only know one xiamen association in Kuala Lumpur with rich guy like Yeo tiong lay of YTL group as committee.
I think with so many chuanchiu in Penang and whole North malaysia,there must be many chuanchiu words in whole north malaysia.I don't believe Loh bunsiu will change his language to chiangchiu a lot.Is he huiua?
It is unthinkable that there are no 10 sub sects of chiangchiu associations in Penang,Taiping,etc.We have many sub sects of hakka and cantonis around even in Taiping but no chiangchiu(maybe i am wrong).There are even 6 Minxi Longyuan huikuan around.

[Yisheng]

Hi Andrew,

I was just giving examples of the iang/iong difference in Chiangchiu/ Amoy. I have heard anyone say jiong before in my life too. Siong is literary as well as Amoy, at least that it what it says in Douglas. It also notes siong te as god. The Chiangchiu pronounciation is Siang. But the strange thing is, all the place names I know are pronounced as iang, like you said Like Siang Hai for Shanghai. Even the teelseed biscuit shops Ghee Hiang and Him Hiang are Hiang and not Hiong. But I know that for surnames, one pronounces it as Hiong. This is one interesting question to ponder...

Yisheng

[Andrew Yong]

Surnames are generally pronounced in the literary pronunciation: e.g. 葉 pronounced Iap (Yeap)

So which of the -iang / -iong words actually are pronounced as -iong in Penang when they are -iang in Chiangchiu? So far I haven't found any proof of any.

As for the tone change rules, the only one that stands out in Penang is the 3->1 instead of 3->2. Douglas doesn't give the sandhi tones except for Amoy, so I have no idea whether this is remarkable or not.


andrew

[Andrew Yong]

Looking at kaiah's list, I note that 相信 is pronounced the same in Chiangchiu as in Penang: i.e. siang-sin, not siong-sin.

andrew

[hong]

I heard only siong-sin from my Penang friends in Petaling Jaya but never siang-sin.What about prime minister?I heard only siong.
I think it was the chiangchiou who came to Penang first ,so the street name will naturally in chiangchiu without any changing even after so many chuanchiu came in.