More words...about 300 I can't track down.

[SimL]

On that note, there is a specific term for ‘moss’, i.e. 青苔 tshàe-thí.

Gosh, this brings back very early childhood memories.

When I was very young (3-4) my parents lived for a short while in Kedah. In those days, it was still VERY rural, so almost anywhere you went out of town (and leaving town was just driving for 5 minutes), you were completely surrounded by padi fields.

My parents used the words "chEN1-thi5" and "ang5-thi5" for the green or red algae/scum which would form in quite extensive stretches on (and in?) the water. I know many middle-class parents all over the world do this sort of thing with their young kids (even to babies, long before they can talk) - pointing out things to them, when they go out together - to teach them language and about the world. So, as we drove along, every time they spotted one of these fields, they would go "look, look 'chEN1-thi5', Sim ", or "look, look 'ang5-thi5', Sim". Curiously, it would always be one of the two which would predominate, in any particular field.

Unfortunately, we weren't interested enough in it to actually stop the car and go and have a look at what the actual plant/algae/scum *was*. At least, I have no memory of us ever doing so.

I would be very interested in knowing if other readers might have grown up with padi fields, and might be familiar with this phenomenon.

Anyway, they were probably misusing the term 'chEN1-thi5' for this, as you point out that it's meaning is "moss".

[Mark Yong]

Ah-bin wrote:
A lid Is this just "Khàm" by any chance?

Based on my experience in Penang, 蓋 kua3 in normally used to specifically denote ‘cover’ as a noun, whereas 𠖫 kham1 is generally (but not exclusively - as Sim pointed out) used more to denote the verb ‘to cover’. So, ‘to cover something with a lid’ would be 𠖫蓋 kham1 kua3.

Ah-bin wrote:
To last, endure

Two words are normally used in Penang: （會）擋久 e7 tOng3 ku2 or the borrowed Malay word ‘tahan’. I normally go for the former.

Ah-bin wrote:
To include/including

That would be just （有）包 (u7) pau1.

Ah-bin wrote:
To load a car or boat

Okay, this one I am not sure about. But generally for filling up a bag or a container, the word would be 袋 te7 (as in 袋囊 te7 long5 ‘to fill up a bag’).

Ah-bin wrote:
Lotus seeds (I have koa ji from somewhere, but that sound more like the dried watermelon seeds that some people find so tasty but I find a bit annoying.)

Yes, that would be 瓜籽. Omnipresent at Chinese New Year gatherings and mahjong tables. And yes, I hate that vile stuff, too!

SimL wrote:
There's also "lian5-ngau7" (蓮藕) which is "lotus-root". Very common in my youth, makes a wonderful soup with pork ribs. For the past 3-4 years available in health food shops here in the Netherlands.

YES! I grew up on that soup, too, though I cannot say that I enjoyed it much back then as I do now (maybe it is because I don’t get to drink it as often anymore!).

On that note, Sim - do you recall those 潮州糜 Teochew porridge stalls along Penang’s Magazine Road (opposite where Komtar now stands), where the old uncles would squat on benches to eat? If I recall correctly, the porridge consisted of little more than some morsels of meat plus the seeds from the 蓮藕 lian5-ngau7. Cannot imagine how something so bland could be so enjoyable!

[SimL]

Based on my experience in Penang, 蓋 kua3 in normally used to specifically denote ‘cover’ as a noun, whereas 𠖫 kham1 is generally (but not exclusively - as Sim pointed out) used more to denote the verb ‘to cover’.

OMG, embarassment !!! You're perfectly right: as a noun, "kua" is much better than "kham".

Yes, that would be 瓜籽. Omnipresent at Chinese New Year gatherings and mahjong tables. And yes, I hate that vile stuff, too!

Haha! I found the black ones (= real water melon seeds) extremely hard to crack open. Particularly if you accidentally got a bit of saliva on the seed (easy if you're putting it in your mouth). Then, the whole outside surface would become super slippery, so that every time I tried to bite downwards to crack the shell, it would simply slip (even though I tried to hold it 100% vertical), and my teeth would come crashing together, against the top and bottom of the now flat-lying 瓜籽.

These were the only ones I remember as a young child. But, at the end of the 60's and beginning of the 70's, a very different sort appeared (also served at Chinese New Year). Namely, a cream/beige coloured one. These were 1.5 to 2 times the size of black seeds, the shell was a lot thiner and softer, and they had a rougher outside surface (or rather, with a sort of "fuzz" on them). These were much easier to crack open (from memory, the actual kernel inside was dark-greenish, rather than the white of the black melon seeds). These one's I didn't mind at all. Even if you got them totally wet with saliva, they still didn't slip, and the thinness and softness of the shell meant they weren't difficult to open.

[In fact, I actually know someone - a white guy who came to know Asian culture relatively late in life - who eats these white ones whole - he just puts a whole handful in his mouth, chews and chews and chews, and then swallows the result - shells and all. I think this is an extremely weird way to eat them, but he really does do this. In fact, he said it didn't even occur to him that someone would take the trouble to remove the shells first, until I told him about it. This would obviously be impossible to do - even for him - with the original black melon seeds.]

On that note, Sim - do you recall those 潮州糜 Teochew porridge stalls along Penang’s Magazine Road (opposite where Komtar now stands), where the old uncles would squat on benches to eat?

I remember them, but not in that specific context. Yes, curious how they always squatted on (those long, thin, wooden) benches (never on chairs). I seem to associate that particularly with benches which were placed outdoors.

The daunting thing is that I myself am now rapidly approaching the age of those old uncles .

[Ah-bin]

Thanks very much again for all of these stories and explanations. They have made me think of a few more things, such as the difference between tahan and lún, but I'll save those for later.

In the meantime I have found out that "postman", according to Tan Choon Hoe's Malay book (this has some extra words missing from the English one), is

pun-phe ê lâng 分批个儂 "one who distributes letters"

Anyway, here are ten more:

1) Member Now I know there is a Mandarin word for this that can be easily made into Hokkien, but do people actually use it, or do they just use the English instead?

2) Mist is this one bū 霧, right?

3) Mold this one is just kó• 菇 I think, as in hoát-kó• 發菇 or does that just mean "to grow fungus" of any kind?

4) Museum How do people refer to the Penang War Museum? In the podcast they always just said it in English.

5) Noise is there any distinction between "sound" and "noise" ( a loud, annoying sound)?

6) A note (write a note) I know pít-kì 筆記, but not sure whether people in Penang tend to siá pít-kì 寫筆記 or just siá not.

7) to pack pack bags before leaving. Perhaps this is tē 袋 as well.

8 ) To offend tek-chōe 得罪 perhaps,. How about "to insult"?

9) Official, formal de Gijzel has "cheng-sek" which would be 正式 but do people actually say this?

10) On time I guess this is ē-hù 會赴


Thank you all again for your indulgence....
I think once I get to 100 words I'll make a consolidated list. Doing this has really spurred dictionary writing along. I'm doing almost a page a day now! Only 83 to go to the magic number 300, when i'll stop adding words and start writing corrections and begin consultation with native speakers.

[Mark Yong]

Ah-bin wrote:
Member Now I know there is a Mandarin word for this that can be easily made into Hokkien, but do people actually use it, or do they just use the English instead?

Surprising as it may seem, yes, the morpheme 員 guan5 is very much alive and well in colloquial Penang Hokkien. Two instances where I have encountered them quite often are (1) 旅行員 lu2-heng7 guan5 ‘tour guide’ and (2) 議員 gi7 guan5 ‘senator’ (yes!).

Ah-bin wrote:
Mist is this one bū 霧, right?

Absolutely. The morpheme can also be used as an adjective, i.e. 真正霧 tsin1-tsiaⁿ3 bu7.

Ah-bin wrote:
Mold this one is just kó• 菇 I think, as in hoát-kó• 發菇 or does that just mean "to grow fungus" of any kind?

The term I normally hear in Penang would be 生菇 saeⁿ1-kO1.

Ah-bin wrote:
Noise is there any distinction between "sound" and "noise" ( a loud, annoying sound)?

In a sense, yes, there is. ‘Sound’ as a generic noun would be just 聲 siaⁿ1, whereas the adjective describing ‘a loud, annoying noise’ would be 亂 luan7. I am aware that the South Malaysian and Singaporean Hokkien speakers tend to use 吵 tsha1.

Ah-bin wote:
to pack pack bags before leaving. Perhaps this is tē 袋 as well.

That would be 攫 khiok4, as in 攫物件 khiok4 mih7-kiaⁿ7 and 攫行李 khiok4 heng7-li2.

Ah-bin wrote:
To offend tek-chōe 得罪 perhaps,. How about "to insult"?

There is a word in Penang Hokkien, ‘tshoh7’ (unfortunately I am travelling interstate at the moment, so I do not have my reference books on me to pull out the Chinese character for it), which means ‘to scold someone harshly’, but I am not sure if it can be correctly used to mean ‘insult’. And then there is the cruder term 訕潲 suan4-siau5 (nowadays, often used in a light-hearted and humourous context).

Ah-bin wrote:
On time I guess this is ē-hù 會赴.

Well, it depends how pedantic you want to be. Strictly-speaking, I would try to differentiate between 會赴 e7-hu3 ‘in time’ and 準時 tsun2-si5 ‘(right) on time’ (note the difference in the preposition used, even in the English language context). Sort of the same way one would (if need be) differentiate between 來得及 and 準時 - where the former refers to ‘arriving on or before a specified time’, while the latter means ‘arriving right on the specified time’.

[Ah-bin]

Thanks Mark for all of these!

The term I normally hear in Penang would be 生菇 saeⁿ1-kO1.

That was the one I was thinking of, actually. People use it for people who sit around too much as well, don't they, warning that their kha chhuiN e sEN kO if they sit on it for too long or something like that!

[Ah-bin]

I found chhoh as well! The character given in the 閩南方言大詞典 is 擊 with a 言 on the bottom instead of a hand. Douglas says it means "to scold with obscene language"

I've come across the morpheme soan 訕 before. I'm sure it's in one of my notebooks, but I can't remember what it means.

[Mark Yong]

This character, perhaps? 𧮙

http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi3/ZdicF0ZdicA7ZdicAEZdic99.htm
http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUniha ... 0%A7%AE%99

[Ah-bin]

That's the one, now that you have printed in in a larger size I see the top isn't the one in 擊 after all, but rather the even more fiendishly difficult one in the character that means "to bore (through)" 鑿!

[Mark Yong]

Try this one for size: 𢺴

Pronounced ut4 in Hokkien, meaning “to twist (normally for bodily joints - shoulders, ankles, etc.)”

http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUniha ... eutf8=true
http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi3/ZdicF0ZdicA2ZdicBAZdicB4.htm

A ghastly 32 strokes for something so conceptually-simple.