Hoklo-Hokkien loanwords in Indo./Malay and v.v.

[SimL]

Hi niuc & amhoanna,

Yes, I think the scenarios you both describe are entirely possible. There used to be (semi-)tropical animals in England, if I recall correctly, but that might have been before humans were on the planet.

I think chiu-tian was indeed the word for a flashlight in Penang when I was young. Hopefully Mark or Andrew can verify this.

My usage is very similar to niuc's: khui1 and kham3. "kham3" vs South Malayan "kuiN1" (= Penang Hokkien "imprison") is a recurrent topic here .

I believe it is this Hokkien usage which leads to Malaysian English forms: "open the light" and "close the light", which causes quite a lot of merriment in white native-speakers of English, when they hear it.

PS. Niuc: the first thing I did when starting to post about "buaya" was to try and find our old correspondence. This particular series of mails seems to be missing. Could you look and see if you still have them, and let me know roughly the date? Just to remind you: I spoke about how "buaya" was very vivid to me, because this was the term I grew up with (while assuming that it was a borrowed term).

[niuc]

Amhoanna, what is the word in TW for "to switch off"?

Sim, does 關 kuiⁿ in South Malayan also mean "to switch off"? In my variant kuiⁿ is used only to mean "to close" (door, operating hour, etc, but not "to switch off"); while 蓋 khàm is used to mean "to cover".

關火 & 關水(撰) sound unnatural in my variant [we say 禁火 & 禁水(撰)], while 蓋火 & 蓋水(撰) in my variant mean to cover the light/lamp & to cover the water (tap). Hokkien variants are always interesting, right?

禁水 in my variant can mean to switch off the water (tap), i.e. 禁水撰, or there is no water coming out from the tap (equivalent to electrical black out = 禁電 or 熄電 or 熄火, but not 禁火).

彼間店關啊 = the shop is already closed (for the day).
彼間店蓋啊 = the shop is closed for good.
But interestingly 店關一禮拜 = 店蓋一禮拜 = the shop is closed for a week.

About "buaya", I couldn't find it in my email either. But I found one in this very forum:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3847&p=26902&hilit=buaya#p26902

[amhoanna]

Amhoanna, what is the word in TW for "to switch off"?

禁 kìm

I'm under the impression that a lot of people under 30 or 35 have trouble remembering this word. It seems to be one of many triggers for switching to Mandarin.

Khuikìm 開禁 for SWITCH isn't part of the vocab in TW, I don't think. Some dictionaries list khaikoan 開関. I think I've also heard su'itchì', a loan from English via JPnese.

[SimL]

Sim, does 關 kuiⁿ in South Malayan also mean "to switch off"? In my variant kuiⁿ is used only to mean "to close" (door, operating hour, etc, but not "to switch off"); while 蓋 khàm is used to mean "to cover".

Hi niuc,

I'm really glad you challenged me on this one. Indeed, my mother's south Malayan relatives use "kuiⁿ" only for doors etc, not for switch off.

Actually, both my mother and her sister (who was visiting when I phoned my parents) now claim that south Malayan Hokkien also uses "kham3" for doors etc, not "kuiⁿ". But this is not my father's and my recollection. We both distinctingly remember my mother's variant as (exclusively) using "kuiⁿ" for doors, etc. I attribute my mother and aunt's assertion to the fact that my mother speaks almost exclusively Penang Hokkien these days, and so she's remembering incorrectly. Her sister hardly speaks Hokkien at home (her husband is Cantonese), so most of the Hokkien she hears is that spoken by my parents.

But in any case, whatever the use for doors etc, my mother confirms that "kuiⁿ" cannot be used for light switches.

[niuc]

Hi Sim

Indeed, my mother's south Malayan relatives use "kuiⁿ" only for doors etc, not for switch off.

Thank you for this information.

Actually, both my mother and her sister (who was visiting when I phoned my parents) now claim that south Malayan Hokkien also uses "kham3" for doors etc, not "kuiⁿ".

We rarely use khàm for doors/windows, as the meaning is a bit vague and gives me the impression that the door/window can be easily opened again. Another word in my variant is khàh (kha8), meaning to close a door/window without locking it, and usually not tightly closed. And of course to lock doors or anything, we say só 鎖.

[SimL]

And of course to lock doors or anything, we say só 鎖.

We do too! Nice that we have some terms in common, sometimes .

[amhoanna]

A few days ago, in the context of using the electric water heater properly, my friend & landlady here in Taiwan said "koaiⁿ tiạu". Now keep in mind she's about 40 and comes from an all-Hoklo-all-the-time part of the middle Taiwanese countryside.

The next day, there was a public announcement that certain streets wouldn't have running water during scheduled maintenance the next day. The announcer also used "koaiⁿ tiạu" in the context of telling residents to turn off their taps. A couple of times during the announcement, she hesitated and plugged in Mandarin words ... but there was no hesitation on koaiⁿ tiạu.

Now, realize: sometimes TWnese people make fun of me for "kóng akong amá ẻ hit chióng Tảigứ".

[Aguilar Xavii]

FLASHLIGHT, but it means something else in Bagansiapiapi!

Flashlight !!! Can you please tell me what does it means in Bagansiapiapi? LOL
I don't think there is something else buddy ..