Msia/Singapore Hokkien borrowed words

[niuc]

Hi Ah-bin

I would have thought that having to learn more than two thousand obscure hieroglyphics was the hardest thing about learning Chinese. They are demanding hat minorities learn to write as well as speak.

I suppose the cognate vocabulary of Tibetan might help them learn Chinese a bit, but only as much as Indo-European cognates help english speakers learn Hindi or Russian

Actually I don't like to get into "political" stuff, yet I have to disagree with you here. I may be wrong, but I feel that you are not being fair about Chinese/Mandarin here. Would a person who love Chinese characters call them "obscure hieroglyphics"? There are many foreigners (usually Westerners) who can write and speak fluent Chinese. Are minorities in PRC less capable than them? Or are they less capable than Taiwanese Aborigines? Surely it was (and is) wrong to ban/discourage their languages, but I am referring to their ability in mastering Mandarin.

I am not sure how easier English is when compared to Mandarin for each linguistic group to learn, but surely it is not that easy either. So why English could be succesfully forced upon Native American, Maori, Hawaian, Aborigines, Chinese in Singapore etc, but not Mandarin upon Uighur or Tibetan? If Taiwanese Aborigines can master Mandarin, there is no reason to think that other minorities cannot.

Kindly correct me if I am wrong, I sense that your actual objection is about PRC rule in Tibet, Xinjang, etc. It is a political stuff that I really don't wish to get into, as I find it complicated. However, regardless it is right or wrong, PRC is not the only case in history, though this is not a justification either. Surely every "ethnic" prefers self-rule, but that ideal is not a reality. To be fair, how about English ruling and taking over Northern America, Australia and NZ? Yes, today Westerners are majority there, but that was through a process that was not better than what PRC is doing. Granted that that was before universal declaration of human right etc, yet it is not effective for those countries with that kind of history to teach PRC or any other country how to behave. Surely you as an individual was not directly involved in that history, but don't forget that Chinese (and many Asians) generally have longer memory (of history) and view a person as an integral part of his society. Indeed everyone should encourage each other toward what is good, but that must be done in the fairest way possible. Having say that, please forgive me for any misunderstanding or offense, I just wish to be convinced by fairness. Thank you

[Ah-bin]

My whole reply got wiped out because I spent so long writing it! I'll just have to write an overview and hope that you trust me when I say that the response was thorough, convincing,well-written and impeccably argued with many good examples from world history....

What I wrote was bascially that my objection wasn't against PRC rule as such, but rather agaisnt the potential of heavy-handed language and cultural policies to create cycles of violence in the present ideological climate. If the PRC was considered by ordinary Uighurs to be the protectopr of Uighur Culture and language, there wouldn't be much objection to PRC rule from Uighurs either.

Also I certainly do love the Chinese characters, that's why I've been learning them for 15 years, not for any material gain, and not because I was forced, but simply for the pure joy of it - the more obscure the better. I don't allow my enjoyment to convince me that everyone should think like that though. Chinese characters are a huge nuisance for millions of people, including many Chinese themselves who could have learnt to read and write in an easier script but have been denied the chance. The westerners who learn Mandarin are exceptional. Imagine how low the standard would be if everyone in England had to study it...it would be like the standard of French.

P.S.
I promise not to write anything not related to Hokkien again...... (please quote if I forget!)

[niuc]

Hi Ah-bin

My whole reply got wiped out because I spent so long writing it! I'll just have to write an overview and hope that you trust me when I say that the response was thorough, convincing,well-written and impeccably argued with many good examples from world history....

It's a pity that the long reply was gone. Not to be distracted by "political stuff", I agree that we discuss about Hokkien only. Thank you for replying:-)

[Ah-bin]

Here's a link to a nice article about those Malay words in Hokkien (and the other way around)

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/is- ... %E2%80%99/

Good one Alfian.