>> Sim and Yisheng: do you say siang-sin or siong-sin for believe?
Andrew, I say siang-sin. siong-sin sounds very Amoy to me...
Philippine Hokkien
-
Sim
Re: Philippine Hokkien
>> I would put yangru as either |4| or |5|.
Me too. |5| for me personally, I think.
Me too. |5| for me personally, I think.
-
LEO TAN
Re: Philippine Hokkien
MOST INTERESTING.
I DID NOT REALIZE THE MYRIAD VARIATIONS IN BAN LAM UE.
MY PATERNAL ANCESTORS ORIGINATED FROM SHUI TOU IN NAN AN. WHICH VARIETY OF MIN NAN HUA IS SPOKEN THERE?
MANY THANKS.
I DID NOT REALIZE THE MYRIAD VARIATIONS IN BAN LAM UE.
MY PATERNAL ANCESTORS ORIGINATED FROM SHUI TOU IN NAN AN. WHICH VARIETY OF MIN NAN HUA IS SPOKEN THERE?
MANY THANKS.
-
Niuc
Re: Philippine Hokkien
Hi all
Great to have so many discussions going on here
Leo, it should be 南安話 'lam5 ua*1 ue7' (nan-an-hua), grouped into 泉州 Cuanciu type.
Stifven, 'pa' ('pazi' potato) that means foreign, is considered as a Hokkien word in your dialect or a foreign word?
Andrew, some surnames are read in literary form e.g. 林 Lim5 (not Na*5), 葉 Yap8 (not Hio8); but mostly are in colloquial form i.e. 陳 Tan5 (not Tin5), 張 Tiu*1 (not Ciong1), 楊 Iu*5 (not Iong5), 黃 Ng5/Ui*5 (not Hong5), 洪 Ang5 (not Hong5), 劉 Lau5 (not Liu5), 方 Png1/Pui*1 (not Hong1), 白 Pe8 (not Pik8), 梁 Niu*5 (not Liong5), etc.
We never use 'pan-gi' for cheap but when I heard it from a Penang person I could guess that he meant 便宜 (literal: 'pian3 gi5'). We use 'phi*1' or 俗 'siok8'. The latter is also used to describe "worthless, lowly".
We usually say 湯匙 'th@ng1 si5' for all kind of spoon, 'khiau1 kiong1' is for a particular type of soup spoon. Other variations: 'tiau1 kiong1'/'thiau1 kiong1' -> tiau5/thiau5. 'khiau1' may refer to its bended form as this type of spoon is more bended. The characters should be 調羹 (tiao5geng1 in Mandarin).
[%sig%]
Great to have so many discussions going on here
Leo, it should be 南安話 'lam5 ua*1 ue7' (nan-an-hua), grouped into 泉州 Cuanciu type.
Stifven, 'pa' ('pazi' potato) that means foreign, is considered as a Hokkien word in your dialect or a foreign word?
Andrew, some surnames are read in literary form e.g. 林 Lim5 (not Na*5), 葉 Yap8 (not Hio8); but mostly are in colloquial form i.e. 陳 Tan5 (not Tin5), 張 Tiu*1 (not Ciong1), 楊 Iu*5 (not Iong5), 黃 Ng5/Ui*5 (not Hong5), 洪 Ang5 (not Hong5), 劉 Lau5 (not Liu5), 方 Png1/Pui*1 (not Hong1), 白 Pe8 (not Pik8), 梁 Niu*5 (not Liong5), etc.
We never use 'pan-gi' for cheap but when I heard it from a Penang person I could guess that he meant 便宜 (literal: 'pian3 gi5'). We use 'phi*1' or 俗 'siok8'. The latter is also used to describe "worthless, lowly".
We usually say 湯匙 'th@ng1 si5' for all kind of spoon, 'khiau1 kiong1' is for a particular type of soup spoon. Other variations: 'tiau1 kiong1'/'thiau1 kiong1' -> tiau5/thiau5. 'khiau1' may refer to its bended form as this type of spoon is more bended. The characters should be 調羹 (tiao5geng1 in Mandarin).
[%sig%]
-
Niuc
Re: Philippine Hokkien
Sorry, 便宜 should be 'pian7 gi5' (not 'pian3'). 調羹 should be tiao2geng1 (not tiao5) in Mandarin.
[%sig%]
[%sig%]
-
Sim
Re: Philippine Hokkien
>> 方 Png1/Pui*1 (not Hong1)
Interesting, as I know of at least one exception.
My maternal grandfather's surname was 方 and he was the headmaster of a Chinese language-stream school in Seremban, Negri Sembilan, Malaysia.
In those days (1950's to 1970's) there were Malay, English, (Mandarin) Chinese, and Tamil language-stream schools, where the medium of instruction was in those languages. I don't know if that's still the case in Malaysia. [ In his case, the school was a "Hakka" school, in the sense that the board of directors was Hakka, and it was closely associated with the Hakka community, but nevertheless, the language of instruction was Mandarin (as was true of any other "dialect association" based schools). ]
Anyway, I used to be very puzzled as a child that he wrote his name (in English transcription - on application forms, labelling luggage, etc) as either "Fang Kiam Hoon" or "Hong Kiam Hoon". The "Kiam Hoon" meant "victorious sword" or something like that, and was his "literary name"*, not the name given to him at birth, by his parents.
When I was much older I worked out that the former form was rather weird, as it was a mix of Mandarin and Hokkien. Of course, "Fang" is the Mandarin form of 方, and "Hong" is a/the Hokkien form of 方, but the "Kiam Hoon" in both cases is pure Hokkien!
Anyway, this appears to be a case of 方 being pronounced "Hong" in a surname.
Regards,
Sim.
Interesting, as I know of at least one exception.
My maternal grandfather's surname was 方 and he was the headmaster of a Chinese language-stream school in Seremban, Negri Sembilan, Malaysia.
In those days (1950's to 1970's) there were Malay, English, (Mandarin) Chinese, and Tamil language-stream schools, where the medium of instruction was in those languages. I don't know if that's still the case in Malaysia. [ In his case, the school was a "Hakka" school, in the sense that the board of directors was Hakka, and it was closely associated with the Hakka community, but nevertheless, the language of instruction was Mandarin (as was true of any other "dialect association" based schools). ]
Anyway, I used to be very puzzled as a child that he wrote his name (in English transcription - on application forms, labelling luggage, etc) as either "Fang Kiam Hoon" or "Hong Kiam Hoon". The "Kiam Hoon" meant "victorious sword" or something like that, and was his "literary name"*, not the name given to him at birth, by his parents.
When I was much older I worked out that the former form was rather weird, as it was a mix of Mandarin and Hokkien. Of course, "Fang" is the Mandarin form of 方, and "Hong" is a/the Hokkien form of 方, but the "Kiam Hoon" in both cases is pure Hokkien!
Anyway, this appears to be a case of 方 being pronounced "Hong" in a surname.
Regards,
Sim.
-
Sim
Re: Philippine Hokkien
>> his "literary name"*
Oops. I had meant to add a footnote at the end of that posting, about "literary names".
My mother explained to me that in Chinese society, some people (mostly males, in those days) would select a "literary name" for themselves when they were in their teens. This was a name they chose for themselves, as they were starting to "grow up" and "form their own identities".
According to my mother, this literary name would be the one the young man would use "in public", i.e. he would introduce himself to his school friends, teachers, and colleagues using this name, and this is the name they would use in addressing him. Usually, his "birth name" - as given by the parents - would only be used within the family, and most friends and colleagues would not even be aware of what it was.
I don't know how common this pratice was in Malaysia, but I seem to recall reading about it in China even from very early times (Tang Dynasty onwards).
Oops. I had meant to add a footnote at the end of that posting, about "literary names".
My mother explained to me that in Chinese society, some people (mostly males, in those days) would select a "literary name" for themselves when they were in their teens. This was a name they chose for themselves, as they were starting to "grow up" and "form their own identities".
According to my mother, this literary name would be the one the young man would use "in public", i.e. he would introduce himself to his school friends, teachers, and colleagues using this name, and this is the name they would use in addressing him. Usually, his "birth name" - as given by the parents - would only be used within the family, and most friends and colleagues would not even be aware of what it was.
I don't know how common this pratice was in Malaysia, but I seem to recall reading about it in China even from very early times (Tang Dynasty onwards).
-
Yisheng
Re: Philippine Hokkien
Hi Sim,
my father's name is also similar to your maternal grandfather. His surname is in mandarin, but his name is in dialect. But he doesn't have a "literary name". On the other hand, my paternal grandmother does have a "literary name" and a "household name". In fact, all my grandmother's brothers and sisters have two names. According to her, they took on their "literary name" when they went to school. This is the only instance of "literary" and "household" name that I know of. I'm not sure whether others in my grandmother's generation had this same practice too.
yisheng
my father's name is also similar to your maternal grandfather. His surname is in mandarin, but his name is in dialect. But he doesn't have a "literary name". On the other hand, my paternal grandmother does have a "literary name" and a "household name". In fact, all my grandmother's brothers and sisters have two names. According to her, they took on their "literary name" when they went to school. This is the only instance of "literary" and "household" name that I know of. I'm not sure whether others in my grandmother's generation had this same practice too.
yisheng
-
Andrew Yong
Re: Philippine Hokkien
Interesting. Is the literary name usually used with the surname, or by itself?