Dear readers,
Other than proununciation, what are the main differences between Cantonese and Mandarin?
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
Cantonese vs. Mandarin
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Mark Turner
Re: Cantonese vs. Mandarin
: Dear readers,
: Other than proununciation, what are the main differences between Cantonese and Mandarin?
: Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
IN reply:
Kobo-San,
Cantonese is, in its own way, very different from
Mandarin, not just in pronunciation, but in the
meanings of words themselves. While Chinese
characters in the north have their own meanings,
they acquire new meanings as they work their way
south. Also, the interaction with Western cultures
and languages is much more prevalent in Cantonese
than Mandarin. For example, the phrase "fan 'OK'"
in Cantonese has the same meaning as "hui jia" in
Mandarin. The literal meaning of both phrases is
"to return home," but how did the English word
"OK" come to replace the Chinese character "Jia"?
It's because of the monumental influence of English
upon Cantonese, at least in and around Hong Kong.
As another example of the difference between the
two languages (or dialects, if you prefer), while
Mandarin speakers use the charcter "shei" for
"who/whom," the Cantonese use two totally different
characters: "bin go." The meaning is the same,
but the characters are completely different.
While all Cantonese speakers will immediately
recognize the character "shei" (and know its
meaning in Mandarin) if it is written, most Mandarin
speakers will not understand the characters for
"bin go" or their meaning, unless they live in an
area where a great deal of Cantonese live and work.
Many Cantonese call themselves "Tang ren"
(Tang Dynasty people) rather than "Zhongguo ren
(Middle country people)." This is a subtle assertion that they are part of
a large and cohesive Cantonese
culture/society, a part of, and yet independent
from the main body of Chinese. Cantonese therefore
takes on a kind of "national language" flavor, as
it unites the Cantonese as a people. The language
is special, and unique. If you'd care to discuss
the differences between Cantonese and Northerners,
I would be happy to do so. I have lived in Guang-
dong, and consider it my second home. If you, or
anyone else reading this note, would care to corres-
pond about anything to do with the language or
people, I would also be happy to do that.
Sincerely yours,
Mark Turner.
englishteacher3@lycos.com
: Other than proununciation, what are the main differences between Cantonese and Mandarin?
: Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
IN reply:
Kobo-San,
Cantonese is, in its own way, very different from
Mandarin, not just in pronunciation, but in the
meanings of words themselves. While Chinese
characters in the north have their own meanings,
they acquire new meanings as they work their way
south. Also, the interaction with Western cultures
and languages is much more prevalent in Cantonese
than Mandarin. For example, the phrase "fan 'OK'"
in Cantonese has the same meaning as "hui jia" in
Mandarin. The literal meaning of both phrases is
"to return home," but how did the English word
"OK" come to replace the Chinese character "Jia"?
It's because of the monumental influence of English
upon Cantonese, at least in and around Hong Kong.
As another example of the difference between the
two languages (or dialects, if you prefer), while
Mandarin speakers use the charcter "shei" for
"who/whom," the Cantonese use two totally different
characters: "bin go." The meaning is the same,
but the characters are completely different.
While all Cantonese speakers will immediately
recognize the character "shei" (and know its
meaning in Mandarin) if it is written, most Mandarin
speakers will not understand the characters for
"bin go" or their meaning, unless they live in an
area where a great deal of Cantonese live and work.
Many Cantonese call themselves "Tang ren"
(Tang Dynasty people) rather than "Zhongguo ren
(Middle country people)." This is a subtle assertion that they are part of
a large and cohesive Cantonese
culture/society, a part of, and yet independent
from the main body of Chinese. Cantonese therefore
takes on a kind of "national language" flavor, as
it unites the Cantonese as a people. The language
is special, and unique. If you'd care to discuss
the differences between Cantonese and Northerners,
I would be happy to do so. I have lived in Guang-
dong, and consider it my second home. If you, or
anyone else reading this note, would care to corres-
pond about anything to do with the language or
people, I would also be happy to do that.
Sincerely yours,
Mark Turner.
englishteacher3@lycos.com
-
lisa c
Re: Cantonese vs. Mandarin
Hello!
While I agree that Cantonese and Mandarin are very different since they come from different language groups, I don't believe that 'OK' comes from the English okay. I'll have to check but I believe that the oak in oak-kay is actually house in Cantonese. I don't know the Mandarin pronounciation for the character.
Soi (shei in Mand.) is also used in Cantonese, as well as heuk fan (Mand. chi fan) but it's more of a style difference (ex. partake/eat). Standard HK Cantonese (as opposed to the many dialects) use 'bin go' and 'sate fan' while many of the Cantonese dialects use 'soi' and 'heuk fan'
While I agree that Cantonese and Mandarin are very different since they come from different language groups, I don't believe that 'OK' comes from the English okay. I'll have to check but I believe that the oak in oak-kay is actually house in Cantonese. I don't know the Mandarin pronounciation for the character.
Soi (shei in Mand.) is also used in Cantonese, as well as heuk fan (Mand. chi fan) but it's more of a style difference (ex. partake/eat). Standard HK Cantonese (as opposed to the many dialects) use 'bin go' and 'sate fan' while many of the Cantonese dialects use 'soi' and 'heuk fan'
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Kobo-Daishi
Re: Cantonese vs. Mandarin
Dear Mark,
What are you doing in Guangdong 廣東 (Mand: guang3 dong1, Cant: gwong2 dung1)? Are you an English teacher (from your e-mail address)? Are you a missionary? Are you studying Cantonese? Mandarin?
The two ways of saying “return home” that you mention are two different phrases. They are 回家 (Mand: hui2 jia1, wui4 gaa1) and 返屋 (Mand: fan3 wu1, faan2 uk1).
As for 屋企 (Mand: wu1 qi3, Cant: uk1 kei2), I think it is just a coincidence that it sounds similar to the English “okay”. Kei 企 (Mand: qi3, Cant: kei2), I think, is a Cantonese dialectal character and should have a mouth radical in front of it. I’m not sure. Maybe I’ll put a post in the Cantonese forum and see if anyone knows. Anyway it doesn’t mean house in Mandarin so I shouldn’t put a Mandarin pronunciation for it.
As for 屋 (Mand: wu1, Cant: uk1) it is, also, pronounced nguk1 in Cantonese, but, some people leave out the ng- initial. There is a posting in the Cantonese forum by a guy named Simon who talks about how some people leave out the ng- initial in characters that traditionally have the ng- initial.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
What are you doing in Guangdong 廣東 (Mand: guang3 dong1, Cant: gwong2 dung1)? Are you an English teacher (from your e-mail address)? Are you a missionary? Are you studying Cantonese? Mandarin?
The two ways of saying “return home” that you mention are two different phrases. They are 回家 (Mand: hui2 jia1, wui4 gaa1) and 返屋 (Mand: fan3 wu1, faan2 uk1).
As for 屋企 (Mand: wu1 qi3, Cant: uk1 kei2), I think it is just a coincidence that it sounds similar to the English “okay”. Kei 企 (Mand: qi3, Cant: kei2), I think, is a Cantonese dialectal character and should have a mouth radical in front of it. I’m not sure. Maybe I’ll put a post in the Cantonese forum and see if anyone knows. Anyway it doesn’t mean house in Mandarin so I shouldn’t put a Mandarin pronunciation for it.
As for 屋 (Mand: wu1, Cant: uk1) it is, also, pronounced nguk1 in Cantonese, but, some people leave out the ng- initial. There is a posting in the Cantonese forum by a guy named Simon who talks about how some people leave out the ng- initial in characters that traditionally have the ng- initial.
Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.
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Robbie Mitchell
Re: Cantonese vs. Mandarin
I found this site by accident, so I apologize in advance if I'm way off base.
Just wanted to comment on the origination of "OK" OK is believed to come from the term "Old Kinderhook"--the nickname for Martin Van Buren, who haild from Kinderhook, NY.
Just wanted to comment on the origination of "OK" OK is believed to come from the term "Old Kinderhook"--the nickname for Martin Van Buren, who haild from Kinderhook, NY.