Hi, all!
Long leave of absence for me, but I'm back! Here's one of my obtuse topics to start things moving again (and once again, in the spirit of my obsession for Hokkien 本字!)
I always had the impression that the Hokkien words for 'academic examinations', i.e. "k'o ch'aek" were 考冊. But now, I am wondering if it is really 考測, since 測 means 'to measure/examine'.
Cheers,
Mark
Examinations...
Hi Mark
Glad to have you back here.
From what I know, it's kho2-che4 [POJ: kho2-chheh4], so the characters are indeed 考冊. It seems unlikely that the character 測 chik4/chhek4 is also read as che4/chheh4.
In my dialect, we also use kho2-cy1 [POJ: kho2-chu1] 考書. Same for thak8-cy1 讀書 and thak8-che4 讀冊.
Glad to have you back here.
From what I know, it's kho2-che4 [POJ: kho2-chheh4], so the characters are indeed 考冊. It seems unlikely that the character 測 chik4/chhek4 is also read as che4/chheh4.
In my dialect, we also use kho2-cy1 [POJ: kho2-chu1] 考書. Same for thak8-cy1 讀書 and thak8-che4 讀冊.
Hey!!!! Niuc and Mark,
Great to see you both. I was getting a bit worried about the fate of the Minnan Forum, but now you're both here (AND Aurelio), I'm happy again. For a while, I thought (H)ong was the only one of the "old guard" who was still reading and posting (Thanks Ong for that very interesting link to the article on "borrowed words" in S.E.Asian Hokkien - I enjoyed that one very much).
So, I am starting Mandarin classes again in September, and my "research" into Hokkien has been going very intensively for the last 3-4 months.
I'll be posting more in the near future!
Take care,
Sim.
Great to see you both. I was getting a bit worried about the fate of the Minnan Forum, but now you're both here (AND Aurelio), I'm happy again. For a while, I thought (H)ong was the only one of the "old guard" who was still reading and posting (Thanks Ong for that very interesting link to the article on "borrowed words" in S.E.Asian Hokkien - I enjoyed that one very much).
So, I am starting Mandarin classes again in September, and my "research" into Hokkien has been going very intensively for the last 3-4 months.
I'll be posting more in the near future!
Take care,
Sim.
Hi Sim
Really glad that you're back and others (Aurelio, Mark) too! Also that we have "new" friends here such as Heruler! And of course also Hong with his continuous participation and interesting links! Hopefully this forum will always be lively!
Sim, what research have you been doing? Do please share with us when you have time! OK till your postings then!
Really glad that you're back and others (Aurelio, Mark) too! Also that we have "new" friends here such as Heruler! And of course also Hong with his continuous participation and interesting links! Hopefully this forum will always be lively!
Sim, what research have you been doing? Do please share with us when you have time! OK till your postings then!
Hi Niuc
Hi Niuc,
Thanks for your warm welcome!
You asked what my "research" was...
Well, I recorded on tape some poems and songs which my parents learnt when they were children. With the help of some friends, I then started trying to write the Chinese characters for the words. Once I had *some* of the words, I could search for the songs on the internet, and I got lots and lots of hits. This enabled me to fill in some of the words which my parents couldn't remember, and also to see the meaning of some of the sentences my parents were not sure of. [You can imagine how it is with Hokkien speakers who can't read Chinese characters: very often we learn whole phrases in a poem or song, but we don't necessarily know what the phrases (or parts of the phrases) mean.]
The pieces I've been looking at are:
1. 雪梅思君 "Suat Mui Su Kun"
2. 做人媳婦 "Co Lang Sim-Pu"
3. 龜咬鱉 "Ku Ka Pih"
4. 天乌乌 "Thinn Oo-Oo"
1 and 4 are songs, 2 and 3 are poems. The texts of all of them are availalbe on the internet, and in some cases, one can hear them on the internet, or they are available on CD.
Actually, the third song on the list is not called "龜咬鱉". It's just the phrase which occurs most often in all the variants of the poem. So far, I have discovered 4 different versions of "龜咬鱉" on the internet, some of them very, very different. The "雪梅思君" is the longest piece I've studied up until now.
So, I've posted my first question on a separate topic. Hopefully some readers will be able to help.
Best regards,
Sim.
Thanks for your warm welcome!
You asked what my "research" was...
Well, I recorded on tape some poems and songs which my parents learnt when they were children. With the help of some friends, I then started trying to write the Chinese characters for the words. Once I had *some* of the words, I could search for the songs on the internet, and I got lots and lots of hits. This enabled me to fill in some of the words which my parents couldn't remember, and also to see the meaning of some of the sentences my parents were not sure of. [You can imagine how it is with Hokkien speakers who can't read Chinese characters: very often we learn whole phrases in a poem or song, but we don't necessarily know what the phrases (or parts of the phrases) mean.]
The pieces I've been looking at are:
1. 雪梅思君 "Suat Mui Su Kun"
2. 做人媳婦 "Co Lang Sim-Pu"
3. 龜咬鱉 "Ku Ka Pih"
4. 天乌乌 "Thinn Oo-Oo"
1 and 4 are songs, 2 and 3 are poems. The texts of all of them are availalbe on the internet, and in some cases, one can hear them on the internet, or they are available on CD.
Actually, the third song on the list is not called "龜咬鱉". It's just the phrase which occurs most often in all the variants of the poem. So far, I have discovered 4 different versions of "龜咬鱉" on the internet, some of them very, very different. The "雪梅思君" is the longest piece I've studied up until now.
So, I've posted my first question on a separate topic. Hopefully some readers will be able to help.
Best regards,
Sim.
Hi Sim:
Wow, that's really good! Actually I ever thought of keeping records of the traditional children rhymes [such as: 月娘刀鈍, 兒仔刀利 .... ger8-niu5 to1 tun1, gi5-na8 to1 lai7 ....] that I used to as a child in Hokkien town of Bagansiapiapi. Yet due to busyness and - particularly - lack of persistence, it's just a "wish". 
The 4 pieces of your research, I heard [versions] of 1, 2 & 4. I heard of the phrase "龜咬鱉 ku1 ka7-pi4" but am not aware of any poems or songs with the phrase. And actualy 鄧麗君 Theresa Teng sang a Taiwanese Minnan song with words like No 2: 做人的媳婦着知道理 cue3-lang5-e5-sim1-pu7 tio8-cai1-to7-li2, 晚晚的去睏着早早起 ua*3-ua*3-e5-khi3-khun3 tio8-ca2-ca2-khi2 .....
加油! Keep on & All the best!
Wow, that's really good!
Actually I ever thought of keeping records of the traditional children rhymes [such as: 月娘刀鈍, 兒仔刀利 .... ger8-niu5 to1 tun1, gi5-na8 to1 lai7 ....] that I used to as a child in Hokkien town of Bagansiapiapi. Yet due to busyness and - particularly - lack of persistence, it's just a "wish". The 4 pieces of your research, I heard [versions] of 1, 2 & 4. I heard of the phrase "龜咬鱉 ku1 ka7-pi4" but am not aware of any poems or songs with the phrase. And actualy 鄧麗君 Theresa Teng sang a Taiwanese Minnan song with words like No 2: 做人的媳婦着知道理 cue3-lang5-e5-sim1-pu7 tio8-cai1-to7-li2, 晚晚的去睏着早早起 ua*3-ua*3-e5-khi3-khun3 tio8-ca2-ca2-khi2 .....
加油! Keep on & All the best!
Hi Niuc
Oh, what a pity you haven't recorded your childhood songs and poems yet. But... it's never too late to start... You know, my uncle and his wife started *learning* Mandarin (from scratch) after they turned 70! And they're quite good at it nowadays, I'm told (he turned 80 about 1-2 years ago).
Yes, the cue-lang-e-sim-pu is the same song as the one I'm investigating. My mother's version is slightly reduced, either because it was already reduced when she learned it, or because she forgot some of the parts.
Sim.
Yes, the cue-lang-e-sim-pu is the same song as the one I'm investigating. My mother's version is slightly reduced, either because it was already reduced when she learned it, or because she forgot some of the parts.
Sim.
Sim, you're welcome. Thanks for the encouragement, I hope to record them in near future. Btw I found similar versions of those children rhymes in internet.
Beside the song, Theresa Teng also sang several Hokkien songs such as 燒肉粽 sio1-ba4-cang3 (hot dumpling) and 一粒流星 cit8-liap8-liu5-chi*1 (a meteor).
Beside the song, Theresa Teng also sang several Hokkien songs such as 燒肉粽 sio1-ba4-cang3 (hot dumpling) and 一粒流星 cit8-liap8-liu5-chi*1 (a meteor).