Hi Everyone,
I've just started trying to transcribe some (youtube) videoclips. I thought I'd create a new topic in order to ask for help in some of the parts. I already have some clips which are at quite an advanced stage of transcription, but I won't post my questions here until I have done a bit more research of my own.
Some questions which come up before-hand though are:
1. How does one write "koh4", as in "ko(h)-u" (= "there is still some more left"), "ko(h)-bueh ..." (= "he/she/they still want to..."), "ko(u)-khi" (= "he/she/they went again"), etc. I found a reference which used 佫, but I don't know how common or accepted this is.
2. How does one write "toh4", or "to3". This is a modal particle, which sort of "adds intensity". E.g. "gua chit-pah tau to(h) ka lu kong liau" (= "I've told you a hundred times"), "gua kui-si-ke chhue, to(h) chhue bo" (= "I looked all over the place, but I still couldn't find it").
3. In Penang Hokkien, the "superlative" particle is "te3-" (sandhi-tone, because it always precedes the adjective). We all know that this is an elision of "te-it" (= "first"). However, many other varieties of Hokkien don't use this. Instead, one of the common ones is (I believe) "siang" (unsure of the tone). I think niuc and others have posted on this issue before, but I can't get the search to produce any results, so I can't find the old answers. I would be most grateful for the confirmation that the word is "siang", and the tone, and (if possible), the character used to write it. I think it's being used in one of the videoclips I'm transcribing.
4. What are the characters for "ma-si" as in "also": "i ma-si ai khi" (= "he/she also wants to go"), "lu ka i kong chit-pah tau, i ma-si be-ki" (= "you can tell him a hundred times, he still forgets"). I presume the second character is "是".
Thanks in advance.
Transcribing videoclips
Re: Transcribing videoclips
Hi Sim
1. I saw some wrote it as 擱 beside 佫.
2. Not sure, but its function is similar to 都 in Mandarin.
3. We use 'te2' (te7-it4 第一) also. Siang7/siong7 is 上.
4. Yes, 'si' is 是. I don't know original character (if any) of 'ma'. I prefer to write it as [麻 on top of 也], however I couldn't find such hanji in my input. Many write it as 嘛.
1. I saw some wrote it as 擱 beside 佫.
2. Not sure, but its function is similar to 都 in Mandarin.
3. We use 'te2' (te7-it4 第一) also. Siang7/siong7 is 上.
4. Yes, 'si' is 是. I don't know original character (if any) of 'ma'. I prefer to write it as [麻 on top of 也], however I couldn't find such hanji in my input. Many write it as 嘛.
Re: Transcribing videoclips
The only one I have seen that is different is to(h) which I have seen written 多 (sound borrowing), or 就 (meaning borrowing). On second thoughts, this last one looks like a different to from the one you are thinking of.
-
Andrew
Re: Transcribing videoclips
Koh is written 復 by BarclayAh-bin wrote:The only one I have seen that is different is to(h) which I have seen written 多 (sound borrowing), or 就 (meaning borrowing). On second thoughts, this last one looks like a different to from the one you are thinking of.
Re: Transcribing videoclips
Oh yeah, this reminds me of 復活 ko4-ua8 (koh4-uah8) "resurrection".Andrew wrote:Koh is written 復 by Barclay
Re: Transcribing videoclips
Seems all the references I have seen thus far use 佫 for ko4.
Andrew and niuc's reference to 復 is interesting, because it brings up a question on the pronunciation. The literal reading for 復 is hok8, i.e. the word has a voiced consonant -k ending. Now, I have heard some Penangites pronouncing ko4 with a glottal stop, i.e. koq4, which could be remnants from what was once a voiced ending -k.
niuc, do you have any references for 復活 being read as ko4-ua8 rather than hok8-ua(t)8?
Andrew and niuc's reference to 復 is interesting, because it brings up a question on the pronunciation. The literal reading for 復 is hok8, i.e. the word has a voiced consonant -k ending. Now, I have heard some Penangites pronouncing ko4 with a glottal stop, i.e. koq4, which could be remnants from what was once a voiced ending -k.
niuc, do you have any references for 復活 being read as ko4-ua8 rather than hok8-ua(t)8?
Re: Transcribing videoclips
By the way, Sim and Ah-bin - I viewed the three video clips that Sim put up on YouTube. They are really great! Plus, I can finally attach two faces to two names! 
Re: Transcribing videoclips
Hi Niuc, Andrew, Ah-bin, Mark,
Thanks for all your responses. For the moment, there seems to be no consenses on the character for "to(h)", so I'll continue transcribing it just in POJ. For "koh", I have settled on 佫 (for the moment).
Mark: glad you liked the clips. I think Ah-bin and I could have talked a bit longer and gone into things in more detail, but still, I'm happy with the outcome - all three are totally unscripted and spontaneous, and there's something to be said for that too. Ah-bin has given me some ideas for future clips I can make solo (this is just the start of my youtube mega-star status
).
Well, I'm just about ready to post my transcriptions and questions. One observation I'd like to make before-hand is something which other Forum members have noted before. Namely, that a lot of the sub-titling of Hokkien clips (if subtitled at all) is not really what is being said in Hokkien, but instead is a translation of the Hokkien speech into Mandarin. Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing that - this is precisely what sub-titling in most movies is: in an Italian movie, one gets (for example) English sub-titling which is a translation of what was said in Italian. Indeed, this is also the most useful thing to do (for Italian as well as Hokkien) - most people who need the sub-titles need them in a language that they do understand, not in the original language. It's only for deaf people that one would get Italian sub-titles in an Italian movie, and English sub-titles in a movie in English, etc. So, perhaps my desire to see Hokkien sub-titlese in a Hokkien clip or movie is asking for too much.
That having been said, I've now gone through the effort of transcribing some of these youtube clips, rendering the speech in POJ and characters (and - sometimes - a translation into English). There are outstanding problems and questions (partsI can't hear clearly, parts I can hear clearly but don't know what they mean, parts I can hear clearly and know what they mean, but don't know good characters to write them with, etc). I've put all these outstanding problems in bold. (I use italics) to render English when it is spoken in a Chinese sentence.) In my transcription, I haven't made any effort to distinguish Hokkien from Mandarin - Hokkien is rendered in POJ, and Mandarin in pinyin.
Thanks in advance for your interest and help. (I'll probably post these on a Singapore forum as well, as I got quite a lot of help from a regular poster there the last time, for the Buddhist lectures.)
Thanks for all your responses. For the moment, there seems to be no consenses on the character for "to(h)", so I'll continue transcribing it just in POJ. For "koh", I have settled on 佫 (for the moment).
Mark: glad you liked the clips. I think Ah-bin and I could have talked a bit longer and gone into things in more detail, but still, I'm happy with the outcome - all three are totally unscripted and spontaneous, and there's something to be said for that too. Ah-bin has given me some ideas for future clips I can make solo (this is just the start of my youtube mega-star status
).Well, I'm just about ready to post my transcriptions and questions. One observation I'd like to make before-hand is something which other Forum members have noted before. Namely, that a lot of the sub-titling of Hokkien clips (if subtitled at all) is not really what is being said in Hokkien, but instead is a translation of the Hokkien speech into Mandarin. Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing that - this is precisely what sub-titling in most movies is: in an Italian movie, one gets (for example) English sub-titling which is a translation of what was said in Italian. Indeed, this is also the most useful thing to do (for Italian as well as Hokkien) - most people who need the sub-titles need them in a language that they do understand, not in the original language. It's only for deaf people that one would get Italian sub-titles in an Italian movie, and English sub-titles in a movie in English, etc. So, perhaps my desire to see Hokkien sub-titlese in a Hokkien clip or movie is asking for too much.
That having been said, I've now gone through the effort of transcribing some of these youtube clips, rendering the speech in POJ and characters (and - sometimes - a translation into English). There are outstanding problems and questions (partsI can't hear clearly, parts I can hear clearly but don't know what they mean, parts I can hear clearly and know what they mean, but don't know good characters to write them with, etc). I've put all these outstanding problems in bold. (I use italics) to render English when it is spoken in a Chinese sentence.) In my transcription, I haven't made any effort to distinguish Hokkien from Mandarin - Hokkien is rendered in POJ, and Mandarin in pinyin.
Thanks in advance for your interest and help. (I'll probably post these on a Singapore forum as well, as I got quite a lot of help from a regular poster there the last time, for the Buddhist lectures.)
Re: Transcribing videoclips
"Hokkien Speeding"
This one is very well known on youtube. It got more than 500 text responses, most of them very positive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3NWm6mYUsE
The only sad thing about this one (and a number of people have remarked about it) is that the ending cuts in rather abruptly.
[Hokkien]
1a. huaN-chhia toh si-kue so
捍車 toh 四界趖
Driving a car, you wander around
1b. sit-chai ho chhit-tho
實在好迄逃
It’s really fun
1c. u lang ai speeding
有人愛 speeding
Some people like speeding
1d. u lang toh ban-ban so
有人 toh 慢慢趖
Others just crawl along
---
2a. u lang chit-chhiu huaN chhia
有人一手捍車
Some people steer with one hand
2b. chit-chhiu ka girlfriend pho
一手共 girlfriend 抱
Hugging their girlfriend with the other
2c. u lang khuaN cha-bO
有人看查某
Some people look at girls
2d. khi long-tioh lau-a-po
去[扌+弄]著老阿婆
And end up hitting a little old lady
---
3a. ang-teng, chhiN teng, khuaN be chheng chho
紅燈青燈看未清楚
Red light, green light, (if) you haven’t (yet) looked carefully
3b. {chong} kue toh chhut chhia-ho
{衝}過 toh 出車禍
If you dash out, there’ll be a car accident
3c. lim-chiu huaN-chhia khi long-tioh lang
啉酒捍車去[扌+弄]著人
If you drink and drive and hit someone
3d. si li i-seng e tua chho
是汝一生的大錯
It’ll be the biggest blunder of your life
---
4a. pager na hiang tioh ai {lun}
Pager 若響著愛{忍}
If your pager rings you have to {???}
4b. a handphone tioh {sam-ban}
啊 handphone 著{三慢}
And your handphone has to {???}
4c. ai jip CBD tioh be tuaN
愛入 CBD 著買單
If you want to enter the CBD, you have to buy a ticket
4d. bus-lane li toh chai siam
Bus-lane 汝 toh 知閃
You will have to know how to avoid the bus-lane
---
5a. huaN-chhia toh si-kue so
捍車 toh 四界趖
Driving a car, you wander around
5b. m-si ho chhit-tho
不是好迄逃
It’s not a lot of fun
5c. na li bo sue-ji
若汝無細膩
If you’re not careful
5d. {liam/liang mi} toh u lang to
{?} toh 有人倒
{???} there’ll be someone {knocked over}
---
6a. huaN-chhia toh si-kue so
捍車 toh 四界趖
Driving a car, you wander around
6b. chheng-ban toh mai chhit-tho
千萬 toh 賣迄逃
{Millions} don’t like to do it
6c. na li ai thi-khi
若汝愛鐵齒
If you stubbornly insist on doing wrong
6d. heN, heN! license tioh pa li kho
heN, heN! license 著 {?} 汝 {?}
Haha! your licence {will be revoked}
[Mandarin]
7a. rén shūo mă-lù rú hǔ -kǒu a
人說馬路如虎口啊
People say the road is like the jaws of death
7b. jiāo-tōng gūi-zé nĭ yào zūn-shǒu
交通規則汝要遵守
You have to obey the traffic regulations
7c. hóng-dēng tíng lái lü dēng zǒu a
紅燈停來綠燈走啊
At a red light, stop; at a green, go
7d. huáng-dēng yi liàng jìu bié căi-yóu
黃燈一亮就別踩油
Once the amber light flashes, don’t step on the gas
7e. níng-kĕ chí-dào jĭ hūn-zhōng a
寧可遲到幾分鍾啊
It’s preferable to arrive a few minutes late
7f. bù yào jí-zhù bă mìng sòng
不要急著把命送
{Don’t hurry and lose your life}
---
Notes:
1. "huaN7" (= "to drive (a car, etc)") is rendered 捍, but I've also seen 按 used.
2. Line 1d is currently rendered "有人 toh 慢慢趖", but it could also be "有人在慢慢趖" u lang ti ban-ban so.
3. Most versions of this on the internet had "bus-stand" in line 4d. Fortunately, one person posted their rendering on the internet, with "bus-lane", and after I listened a number of times, I think "bus-lane" is better than "bus-stand" (although one would normally "siam2" a bus-stand more than one would a "bus-lane", so I'm still not 100% sure...).
4. In the second-last line (7e), the transcription reads 分鍾 “fen-zhong” which makes perfect sense, but for some reason it is pronounced “hun-zhong” in execution.
This one is very well known on youtube. It got more than 500 text responses, most of them very positive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3NWm6mYUsE
The only sad thing about this one (and a number of people have remarked about it) is that the ending cuts in rather abruptly.
[Hokkien]
1a. huaN-chhia toh si-kue so
捍車 toh 四界趖
Driving a car, you wander around
1b. sit-chai ho chhit-tho
實在好迄逃
It’s really fun
1c. u lang ai speeding
有人愛 speeding
Some people like speeding
1d. u lang toh ban-ban so
有人 toh 慢慢趖
Others just crawl along
---
2a. u lang chit-chhiu huaN chhia
有人一手捍車
Some people steer with one hand
2b. chit-chhiu ka girlfriend pho
一手共 girlfriend 抱
Hugging their girlfriend with the other
2c. u lang khuaN cha-bO
有人看查某
Some people look at girls
2d. khi long-tioh lau-a-po
去[扌+弄]著老阿婆
And end up hitting a little old lady
---
3a. ang-teng, chhiN teng, khuaN be chheng chho
紅燈青燈看未清楚
Red light, green light, (if) you haven’t (yet) looked carefully
3b. {chong} kue toh chhut chhia-ho
{衝}過 toh 出車禍
If you dash out, there’ll be a car accident
3c. lim-chiu huaN-chhia khi long-tioh lang
啉酒捍車去[扌+弄]著人
If you drink and drive and hit someone
3d. si li i-seng e tua chho
是汝一生的大錯
It’ll be the biggest blunder of your life
---
4a. pager na hiang tioh ai {lun}
Pager 若響著愛{忍}
If your pager rings you have to {???}
4b. a handphone tioh {sam-ban}
啊 handphone 著{三慢}
And your handphone has to {???}
4c. ai jip CBD tioh be tuaN
愛入 CBD 著買單
If you want to enter the CBD, you have to buy a ticket
4d. bus-lane li toh chai siam
Bus-lane 汝 toh 知閃
You will have to know how to avoid the bus-lane
---
5a. huaN-chhia toh si-kue so
捍車 toh 四界趖
Driving a car, you wander around
5b. m-si ho chhit-tho
不是好迄逃
It’s not a lot of fun
5c. na li bo sue-ji
若汝無細膩
If you’re not careful
5d. {liam/liang mi} toh u lang to
{?} toh 有人倒
{???} there’ll be someone {knocked over}
---
6a. huaN-chhia toh si-kue so
捍車 toh 四界趖
Driving a car, you wander around
6b. chheng-ban toh mai chhit-tho
千萬 toh 賣迄逃
{Millions} don’t like to do it
6c. na li ai thi-khi
若汝愛鐵齒
If you stubbornly insist on doing wrong
6d. heN, heN! license tioh pa li kho
heN, heN! license 著 {?} 汝 {?}
Haha! your licence {will be revoked}
[Mandarin]
7a. rén shūo mă-lù rú hǔ -kǒu a
人說馬路如虎口啊
People say the road is like the jaws of death
7b. jiāo-tōng gūi-zé nĭ yào zūn-shǒu
交通規則汝要遵守
You have to obey the traffic regulations
7c. hóng-dēng tíng lái lü dēng zǒu a
紅燈停來綠燈走啊
At a red light, stop; at a green, go
7d. huáng-dēng yi liàng jìu bié căi-yóu
黃燈一亮就別踩油
Once the amber light flashes, don’t step on the gas
7e. níng-kĕ chí-dào jĭ hūn-zhōng a
寧可遲到幾分鍾啊
It’s preferable to arrive a few minutes late
7f. bù yào jí-zhù bă mìng sòng
不要急著把命送
{Don’t hurry and lose your life}
---
Notes:
1. "huaN7" (= "to drive (a car, etc)") is rendered 捍, but I've also seen 按 used.
2. Line 1d is currently rendered "有人 toh 慢慢趖", but it could also be "有人在慢慢趖" u lang ti ban-ban so.
3. Most versions of this on the internet had "bus-stand" in line 4d. Fortunately, one person posted their rendering on the internet, with "bus-lane", and after I listened a number of times, I think "bus-lane" is better than "bus-stand" (although one would normally "siam2" a bus-stand more than one would a "bus-lane", so I'm still not 100% sure...).
4. In the second-last line (7e), the transcription reads 分鍾 “fen-zhong” which makes perfect sense, but for some reason it is pronounced “hun-zhong” in execution.
Re: Transcribing videoclips
Just the character text is as follows. It's interesting to compare with the version which is widely available on the internet.
捍車 toh 四界趖
實在好迄逃
有人愛 speeding
有人 toh 慢慢趖
有人一手捍車
一手共 girlfriend 抱
有人看查某
去[扌+弄]著老阿婆
紅燈青燈看未清楚
{衝}過 toh 出車禍
啉酒捍車去[扌+弄]著人
是汝一生的大錯
Pager 若響著愛{忍}
啊 handphone 著{三慢}
愛入 CBD 著買單
Bus-lane 汝 toh 知閃
捍車 toh 四界趖
不是好迄逃
若汝無細膩
{??} toh 有人倒
捍車 toh 四界趖
千萬 toh 賣迄逃
若汝愛鐵齒
heN, heN! license 著 {?} 汝 {?}
人說馬路如虎口啊
交通規則汝要遵守
紅燈停來綠燈走啊
黃燈一亮就別踩油
寧可遲到幾分鍾啊
不要急著把命送
---
Common internet version (easily found if you google for the line "交通規則你要遵守", which yields about 10 hits, about 5 of which have the full text):
華車咧四際蛇
實在好迄逃
有郎ㄝspeeding
有郎地慢慢蛇
有郎一手華車
一手嘎girlfriend波
有郎看查某
企徿丟老阿婆
紅燈綠燈看沒清楚
衝過丟出車禍
喝酒華車企徿掉郎
是你一生嘿大錯
Pager 若響丟愛忍
啊headphone丟三慢
愛入CBD丟買單
Bus stand你丟知閃
華車咧四際蛇
不是好迄逃
若你冇小立
兩咪兜有郎倒
華車咧四際蛇
千萬丟賣迄逃
若你愛鐵齒
呵呵 license丟把你扣
人說馬路如虎口啊
交通規則你要遵守
紅燈停來綠燈走啊
黃燈一亮就別踩油
寧可遲到幾分鍾啊
不要急著把命送
The interesting thing about these versions is that they use totally inappropriate characters for the Hokkien words for which the transcriber didn't know of a good character to use. For example, "huan7" is simply written 華 etc. The use of ㄝ is also interesting.
捍車 toh 四界趖
實在好迄逃
有人愛 speeding
有人 toh 慢慢趖
有人一手捍車
一手共 girlfriend 抱
有人看查某
去[扌+弄]著老阿婆
紅燈青燈看未清楚
{衝}過 toh 出車禍
啉酒捍車去[扌+弄]著人
是汝一生的大錯
Pager 若響著愛{忍}
啊 handphone 著{三慢}
愛入 CBD 著買單
Bus-lane 汝 toh 知閃
捍車 toh 四界趖
不是好迄逃
若汝無細膩
{??} toh 有人倒
捍車 toh 四界趖
千萬 toh 賣迄逃
若汝愛鐵齒
heN, heN! license 著 {?} 汝 {?}
人說馬路如虎口啊
交通規則汝要遵守
紅燈停來綠燈走啊
黃燈一亮就別踩油
寧可遲到幾分鍾啊
不要急著把命送
---
Common internet version (easily found if you google for the line "交通規則你要遵守", which yields about 10 hits, about 5 of which have the full text):
華車咧四際蛇
實在好迄逃
有郎ㄝspeeding
有郎地慢慢蛇
有郎一手華車
一手嘎girlfriend波
有郎看查某
企徿丟老阿婆
紅燈綠燈看沒清楚
衝過丟出車禍
喝酒華車企徿掉郎
是你一生嘿大錯
Pager 若響丟愛忍
啊headphone丟三慢
愛入CBD丟買單
Bus stand你丟知閃
華車咧四際蛇
不是好迄逃
若你冇小立
兩咪兜有郎倒
華車咧四際蛇
千萬丟賣迄逃
若你愛鐵齒
呵呵 license丟把你扣
人說馬路如虎口啊
交通規則你要遵守
紅燈停來綠燈走啊
黃燈一亮就別踩油
寧可遲到幾分鍾啊
不要急著把命送
The interesting thing about these versions is that they use totally inappropriate characters for the Hokkien words for which the transcriber didn't know of a good character to use. For example, "huan7" is simply written 華 etc. The use of ㄝ is also interesting.