Hokkien clip on prevention of heart disease

[SimL]

Hi everyone,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ginnnSliC4I

This is the latest Hokkien clip I found on the net. It appears to be advice from the Singapore Heart Foundation on how to eat healthily to avoid heart disease. I think the speaker speaks very clearly and nicely, and the message is good too!

One interesting aspect is that it appears to be a mix of Penang Hokkien and non-Penang Hokkien accents (or Ciang-ciu and E-mng, if you prefer).

I'll give two lists of words below, one with words which I thought were particularly Penang Hokkien, and one with words which I thought were particularly not Penang Hokkien. Curiously, the speaker sometimes alternates between the two forms for the same word. For example, he says mostly "nng" for "egg" and "two", but he also says "nui" for "egg" and "nO" for "two". Similarly, he mostly says "cue" for "many", but I heard "ce" also. The words are very roughly in the order in which they occur in the clip.

Penang Hokkien

seng-ku "body" (not "khu")
lang2 "we/us"
kue ci "fruit"
lu2 "you"
ce7 "a lot, much" (in "ce iu, thng, iam", a lot of oil, sugar, salt)
ciaN1- "very" (tone1 is a sandhi-tone; I consider this to be a very Penang Hokkien elision, but I may be wrong)
bak4 "meat" (elsewhere he says "bak8", which I consider quite Amoyish)
nui7 "egg"
nO7 "two"
puiN7 "rice"
chue1 "to steam"

Non-Penang Hokkien

a-be "not yet"
sio1-hun1 "to smoke" (I think we always say "soh4-hun1" in Penang)
cue7 (hang) "many (things)"
long cong "all"
ty1 "pig, pork" (I think Amoy is even "ti1", with "ty1" being non-Amoy, but definitely non-Penang Hokkien)
phe5 "skin"
bak8 "meat"
hi5 "fish"
te5 "tea" (i.e. not "tE5")
neng7 "egg"
neng7 "two"
pue1 "glass, cup"
ca1(sandhi-tone)-bo2 (I think Penang Hokkien sounds more like ca3(sandhi-tone)-bo2)
ta1(sandhi-tone)-pO1 (I think Penang Hokkien sounds more like ta3(sandhi-tone)-pO1)

Typical for Malaysia and Singapore are of course the two borrowings from Malay:

1. "ja1('sandhi'-tone)-gong7" for "maize"

[I just noticed that it's a real '-o-' rather than an '-O-' in this "gong", more like the '-o-' in Mandarin/pinyin "(g)ong" really (ignoring the difference in the "g-"). So, a quite non-Hokkien sound in this word, in fact.]

2. "ka3('sandhi'-tone)-ya1" (a spread made of egg and sugar and pandan leaves, put on bread; I've always called it "egg jam" in English, if speaking to people unfamiliar with S.E. Asia, but Wikipedia says it's called "coconut jam" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaya_(jam) ... _Singapore).


All in all, for the whole clip, the sounds are mostly non-Penang Hokkien, but the intonation strikes me as being influenced by Penang Hokkien. The intonation is definitely a lot less Amoyish or even Singaporean Hokkien than I'm used to.

What do other people think?

PS. Does anyone know how to make links clickable? When I'm writing this post, I see on the right of the box where I type the text "[url] is OFF". I suspect if I could work out how to turn it into "[url] is ON, then the links would become clickable, which would be much more convenient for other readers.

PPS. I find it very encouraging (and also surprising) to see that a public institution like the Singapore Heart Foundation is actually producing material in Hokkien!

[niuc]

Hi Sim

You are right, the intonation sounds like Penang style. If you didn't list out the non-Penang pronunciations, I wouldn't pay attention and would just assume that the video was in Penang Hokkien. I never heard anyone speak Hokkien that way in Singapore. Mostly it is like a mix of E-mng Hokkien and Teochew, rather than E-mng & Penang altogether by one speaker!

Glad to know that Singapore Heart Foundation has it in many languages, including Hokkien. Last time during "sars time" tv also run health related ads in many languages including Hokkien, Cantonese etc. Government here does allow media in Chinese "dialects" to reach out to elderly people. Many politicians used (and still will use) Hokkien during campaign for general election. What it doesn't allow is any growing room for "dialects". Unless its policy is changed, the video and the likes are merely ad-hoc solution to reach to all people in Singapore, that won't be needed in the future, when all the remaining population understand English and Mandarin well.

[SimL]

Hi NIuc,

Thanks for confirming my initial impression of the intonation. Strange, isn't it, this particular mix .

I understand what you're saying about the allowing of "dialects" being just an ad hoc / temporary solution, only for a specific situation. Sadly, as the older generations pass away, they won't be needing such solutions any more, and then it will just be exclusively English, Malay(?), Tamil(?) and Mandarin. [I put question marks after Malay and Tamil because I was wondering if the same thing is happening with them as with Hokkien, Cantonese, etc. I.e. Will English and Mandarin be the only government supported languages in 20 years' time?]

[niuc]

Hi Sim

It is.

I don't think the government will tamper with Malay and Tamil, as it is a very sensitive issue, and also multi-racialism is one of the essentials for peaceful society here. It does however want to unify all Chinese, and there comes in the "anti-dialects" policy. Surely we don't think that "dialects" are a hindrance to unity, unfortunately it doesn't agree with us.

[SimL]

Hi Niuc,

I understand what you're saying. I suppose Singaporeans of Indian and Malay ethnic descent would protest strongly if they felt that their languages were being limited, whereas Chinese Singaporeans of Cantonese, Hokkien, Teochew, etc descent don't and won't protest about their languages being limited. So, perhaps the policy reflects what many Chinese Singaporeans aren't really bothered about anyway...

[Andrew]

Penang Hokkien

seng-ku "body" (not "khu")
lang2 "we/us"
kue ci "fruit"
lu2 "you"
ce7 "a lot, much" (in "ce iu, thng, iam", a lot of oil, sugar, salt)
ciaN1- "very" (tone1 is a sandhi-tone; I consider this to be a very Penang Hokkien elision, but I may be wrong)
bak4 "meat" (elsewhere he says "bak8", which I consider quite Amoyish)
nui7 "egg"
nO7 "two"
puiN7 "rice"
chue1 "to steam"

pE7 "sick"

Non-Penang Hokkien

a-be "not yet"
sio1-hun1 "to smoke" (I think we always say "soh4-hun1" in Penang)
cue7 (hang) "many (things)"
long cong "all"
ty1 "pig, pork" (I think Amoy is even "ti1", with "ty1" being non-Amoy, but definitely non-Penang Hokkien)
phe5 "skin"
bak8 "meat"
hi5 "fish"
te5 "tea" (i.e. not "tE5")
neng7 "egg"
neng7 "two"
pue1 "glass, cup"
ca1(sandhi-tone)-bo2 (I think Penang Hokkien sounds more like ca3(sandhi-tone)-bo2)
ta1(sandhi-tone)-pO1 (I think Penang Hokkien sounds more like ta3(sandhi-tone)-pO1)

long2-cong2 is also used in Penang
mi-kiaN7 instead of mih-kiaN7 was what I found weirdest
lu2-lai5 lu2 ... "increasingly ..."
ng5 "yellow"

I wonder where the speaker is from.

[SimL]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your input, and your correction of my calling "long-cong" non-Penang Hokkien. I think I've been told this before too (possibly by you), but I keep forgetting! I'll try not to say this again in the future.

[SimL]

I googled for "lee eng kew" (the name which appears in the credits at the end) + "hokkien" and there are heaps of hits. It's unclear whether it is the same person, but the fact that the Lee Eng Kew who turns up on google has a Hokkien connection might mean that it is.

I give the two top hits, the first partly because there is a connection for niuc to Bagan Siapi-api.

http://heritagesingapore.files.wordpres ... lo-res.pdf

http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.a ... c=features

Perhaps the connection with Taiping might explain the accent. On the other hand, why would the Singapore Heart Foundation get a Malaysian to do read their message? There must be heaps of Singaporeans who would be able to do this. So perhaps it's just a different Lee Eng Kew. On the other other hand, the first link is of the Singapore Heritage Society, so there is a direct connection to Singapore. Guess we could establish that if the two films are available on DVD.

Andrew, could you persuade the SOAS librarian to try and find them?

[niuc]

Hi Sim

Thanks for the links. Indeed I heard of the pirate story, but didn't know there was any documentation about it. However, I am not sure if it is the same pirate story. I don't know the names but I was told that there were 5 pirates who ran from Malaya to Bagansiapiapi (in short: Bagan 峇眼 ba5-gan2). They brutally killed some Bagan fishermen at sea, not sure before or after they relocated, so somehow some Bagan people recognised them as such and managed to kill them. If I heard and remember correctly, those who killed them were awarded by British ruler of Malaya. The story continued that after awhile they appeared in a dream (to who?? one or many??) and asked to be worshipped. The temple built for them was 五祖 'ngor2-cor2', just nearby then my grandfather's house. Anyway it is still beyond me how some people could worship pirates they themselves killed as "dieties".

p.s. I'll be abroad for about one week, not sure if I can online. Looking forward to reading other postings in this forum when I online again. Have a great weekend!

[SimL]

Hi Niuc,

Once again, thanks for the additional detail. I could have googled for "Tan Lian Lay" too, earlier, but never thought of it. It was only because you posted more information - that prompted me to do so. Again, the marvels of the internet - lots of hits, including where one can buy the DVD for 20 ringgit. [This post is NOT solely for the purpose of advertising commercial products! ]

http://www.silverfishbooks.com/buybooks ... m8ct5s0bg6

I agree with you that it's very strange to deify someone whom one has killed because he himself was a criminal and killer.

I hope you have a great time abroad!