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Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:07 am
by chuck888
Altaic influence on Chinese
For a long time, people (especially westerns) misunderstood Altaic people as Chinese subdivision. Often people were confused by Altaic people and Chinese. This page is to list such confusions and misleading terms and concepts. They need to be fixed. A main reason of such confusion was because non-Altaic (or non-Asian) people had difficulties in distinguishing Altaic people from Chinese. Also, through history, they had interactions and mixed in some part. However, two groups had completely different origins with distinct culture, identity, appearance, and language. Most of time, Altaic people remained huge influence on Chinese. Still lots of Altaic culture is mistakenly understood as Chinese culture. Understanding such Altaic influence on Chinese is important to clarify Altaic culture.

Altaic countries that colonized China
For a long time Altaic people governed and colonized China. Almost half of dynasties included in current Chinese history were non-Han Chinese dynaties. Also, Altaic people completely conquered China two times by Mongols and Manchus. Thus, Altaic influence on Chinese is huge. Current Chinese history cannot be completely separated from Altaic people's history. Due to this reasons, a lot of Altaic people and culture are mistakenly understood as Chinese. There are more non-Chinese culture and history in Ancient time. They should be clarified.

•304-439 Five Barbaric states and 16 countries (Tibettans, and Altaic people):
◦Another map: http://www.kknews.co.jp/wb/archives/images/五胡十六国.bmp
•386- 581 Northern Wei dynasty (Xianbei Altaic people)
•907-1125 Liao (Khitan Altaic people) : capital was Beijing
•1115-1234 Jin (Jurchen Altaic people): capital was Beijing
•1206-1368 Yuan (Mongol Altaic people): capital was Beijing
◦another map
•1616-1911 Qing (Manchu Altaic people): capital was Beijing
•1932-1945 Manchukuo and Japanese occupation on East China (Japanese and Manchu Altaic people):

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304-439 Five Barbaric states and 16 countries (Tibettans, and Altaic people) (blue part on the map)

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386- 581 Northern Wei dynasty (Xianbei Altaic people)

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907-1125 Liao (Khitan Altaic people) : Beijing was the southern capital

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1115-1234 Jin dynasty (Jurchen Altaic people): the capital was Beijing

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1206-1368 Yuan dynasty (Mongol Altaic people): the capital was Beijing

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1616-1911 Qing dyansty (Manchu Altaic people): the capital was Beijing

Genetic influence on Chinese
For a long time, Altaic people's genes infiltrated into Chinese gene. Due to this reason, genetic analysis often show some similarity to other Altaic people depending on regions. Mostly northern Chinese were heavily influenced by Altaic genes, so northern Chinese show more similarity to Altaic people than southern Chinese to Altaic people.

After collapse of Manchu empire Qing in 1912, Chinese got independence first time in 300 years expanding territory further north. After failure of the last Manchu state Manchukuo in 1945, China included Inner Mongolia and Machuria for the first time in history. Now China includes Altaic people homelands - Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Uygur. Chinese population in Manchuria grew fast becoming majority overwhelming native Manchu people. Many of native Manchu people and ethnic minorities changed their ethnics to Han Chinese.

Han chinese is the name of traditional Chinese occupying over 95% of Chinese population. But they are not a single ethnic. Nothern Han Chinese group and southern Han Chinese look clearly different and their native languages are also different. Originally, Han Chinese started history around Yellow River, and they didn't consider southern Chinese as the same ethnics. After Song dynasty, southern people were included but they were not called Han Chinese until Ming dynasty. Mongols' Yuan dynasty classified them with different names, Han people and Southern Song people.

Repeated Altaic conquests and long history of colonization on China deeply changed the original Chinese culture and their appearance. Current national historic institute of China concluded that original pure Han Chinese disappeared, and only cultural concept of Chinese remained [4 ].

Original Altaic culture that influenced Chinese
•Firearms and Gun pouder
  • ◦People of Jin dynasty invented firearms using gunpowder for the first time, and they used firearms when Chinghis Khan (Mongol) invaded. But, It is wrongly known as Chinese invention to public. There is no clear evidence that gun powder was invented by Chinese. Only some records about ancient Chinese experiments showing smoke and fire were remained. but they were not connected to gun powder or firearms. Explosive materials was widespread across the world in early period before the firearms were invented. How Jurchens invented firearms is not clear. What current records say is that people of Jin dynasty used firearms for the first time. So, it should be understood as invention of Jin dynasty. The royal family of Jin dynasty was from Silla and Balhae (Korean conenctiont to Manchus). People of Jin were called Jurchens.
  • ◦Chinese argument is that Jurchens are Chinese ethnic minority, so Jurchen's invention is also Chinese invention. But, Jurchens had not been called Chinese, and Jin dynasty had not been considered as Chinese history until 1980s. Jurchens were foreign ethnics to Chinese when firearms and gunpower was invented. After China occupied Tibet, Uygur, Inner Mongolia, and Manchuria in 1950s, China rewrote history to include all different ethnics living in the expanded territory. Chinese deviced a logic to include multiple ethnics in 1980s. "Han Chinese" is for the main stream ethnics, and "Chinese" for all ethnics living in China. As "American ethnics" doesn't make sense, "Chinese ethnics" including 56 ethnics is nonsense. It was political attempts to erase all ethnic minorities in China.
  • ◦Mongol learned fire arms from Jin dyansty and transfered to western. It was also misunderstood as if Mongols learned it from Chinese. Mongols couldn't reach Song China until the collapse of Jin dynasty because Jin dynasty blocked Mongols from reaching China. Take a look at the map of Jin dynasty above.
•The first ancient rocket
  • ◦During Mongol invasion on Jin dynasty, first ancient rocket was used. It is also misunderstood as Chinese invension.
•Dragon
•Jade
•Qipao
•The Forbidden City in Beijing

Chinese Culture Influenced by Altaic People
•Mandarin [1 ]
  • ◦Mandarin became standard Chinese by Manchus during Qing dynasty. Before Qing dynasty, Chinese in each local province used their own native languages. Linguists classify them as different languages not dialects. Northern Chinese local languages show similarity to Altaic languages, and Southern Chinese native languages show similarity to Austro-asianic language.
  • ◦Mandarin was native language only in East Liao province where is in western Manchuria. Some Chinese migrated to East Liao from Han danasty, and they were mixed with native Altaic people who lived there. Also, East Liao was out side of traditional Chinese land until China annexed Manchuria in 1946.
  • ◦When Qing dynasty conquered China in 1644, Manchus brought people from East Liao and they helped Manchus to govern Chinese. Qing dynasty educated Chinese to learn this language in order to govern Chinese easily. But the Manchus efforts reached to only limited success because of Chinese resistance against Manchu invaders. Mandarin literally means the language spoken by the government.
  • ◦After China got independence in 1912, China moved the capital from Nanjing to Beijing, and the language in Beijing became the standard language of China. So, Mandarin became the current standard language in China.
•Foot Binding
  • ◦Altaic people never did Foot binding. It was exclusively done by Han Chinese. Manchu emperors tried to prevent Foot binding from Chinese during Qing dyansty, but failed. Chinese were scared that Altaic people take their women for a long time. The original reason of Chinese foot binding was to prevent northern invaders to take their women.
  • ◦The current chinese explanation about foot binding that they thought small feet was beautiful was developed long time later. Chinese women with Foot binding couldn't work or ride a horse. Nomadic people couldn't take such women.
Exaggerated influence by Chinese characters
One misunderstanding widespread about Korean and Japanese is their connection to Chinese due to Chinese characters. It is often mistakely said (by Chinese) that their vocabulary is based on old Chinese characters, so they are also Chinese origin.

You are reading this thread using English alphabets which were from Roman letters originated from Greek alphabet. So, are you a Italian-origin? or are you a Greek-origin? This kind of nonsense is widespread understanding Korean and Japanese. Old Chinese characters were transferred to Korea and Japan with Buddhism. But Buddhism was NOT transferred by Chinese.

Buddhism was transferred to Guguryeo from Former Qin which was a Tibbettan coutry. Tibettans occupied north China and expanded the territory up to Goguryeo in 4th century. The Tibbetan ruler Fujian sent a Buddhist monk Sundo to Goguryeo to transfer Buddhism in 372. Korean Buddhism is often misunderstood as Chinese influence only because China expanded the land to whole Tibet in recent age. Korean Buddhism should be regarded as Tibettan influence, NOT Chinese.

Buddhism to Baekje was transfered by monk Marananta from Serindian in 384 which was over current Afghanistand and Uygur . Buddhism to Japan was transfered by Baekje with Kanji in 552.

Then why were Chinese characters used to transfer Buddhism? It is because a Chinese character represent a meaning instead of a sound. East Asians with different languages were able to communicate with characters representing meaning. Due to this reason Chinese characters were international characters in East Asia.

Chinese characters don't belong to only Chinese, but belong to all East Asians who used them.

Origin of Chinese
Recent genetic analysis unveiled that both North and South Chinese were from Southeast Asia (Myanma, Laos, Thai, Vietnam, ...), and spread to China around 10,000 years ago [2 ]. DNA analysis was performed by Chinese professors to see whether Chinese were evolved from apes in China or migrated from Africa. This study concluded that Chinese were migrated from East Africa to Southeast Asia (Myanma, Laos, Thai, ...), passed through Yunnan provinceand spread to China both north and south. This result was reported in The Beijingnews [2 ] and English People's Daily News [5 ]. Chinese who moved from south collided to Altaic people in North China, and North Chinese were heavily mixed with Altaic people after repeated conquests and colonization by Altaic people.

According to Wian Yida (袁義達), a researcher in Chinese Science Institute, the genetic difference between North and South Han Chinese is bigger than that of North Han Chinese and other ethnic minorities. It was concluded that Han Chinese don't have unique genetic identity, and only cultural identity remained as Chinese [3 ].

People of Southeast Asian countries (Myanma, Laos, Thai, Vietnam, ...) show similarity to Chinese culture including language. They are tonal language with SVO (Subject Verb Object) word sequence. Especially, the Burmese (language of Myanma) shows high similarity to Chinese. The current national Chinese language Mandarin was influenced by Manchu Altaic language. However, native Chinese languages show more similarity to Southeast Asian languages. Laos shows similarity to Han Chinese custom too.

The origin of Altaic people is known from Baikal lake and Altaic mountains in north Siberia. Altaic people (Korean, Mongol, and Manchus) lived around Baikal lake during glacial period, and moved to south 10,000 years ago. Altaic people were mainly evolved from Caspi see to Baikal lake passing Uralic and Altaic mountains. The genetic study of National Geographics unvailed that Altaic people's closest relatives are Iranian, Israelian, and Russians. Interestingly, Altaic people don't have any a common ancestor with Chinese until go back to Africa [6 ]. The distance between Altaic people and Chinese are bigger than that of all other races. The current similarity by genetic analysis is due to mix of them later. Chinese were heavily mixed with Altaic people.

Reference
[1] Stephen A. Wadley, "Altaic Influences on Beijing Dialect: The Manchu Case", The Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 116, 1996
http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qs ... 5001638952
[2] "DNA analysis on Chinese: The Beijing man of skull cannot be Chinese ancestor?", the Beijingnews, 2005, http://news.thebeijingnews.com/0197/200 ... @96905.htm
[3] "North and South Han Chinese are not the same ethnic?"http://big5.cri.cn/gate/big5/gb.cri.cn/ ... 288735.htm
[4] Associate Professor Xie East (Lanzhou University), "Pure Han people do not exist", Beijing News, 2007,http://tech.sina.com.cn/d/2007-02-15/08081385672.shtml
[5] "New Genetics Evidence Proves African Origin of Modern Chinese", People's daily, 2000,http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20000 ... 573.html[6] "Altas of Human Journey", National Geogrpahics, https://genographic.nationalgeographic. ... atlas.html

Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:22 am
by deadlock
Article: The construction of military prostitution in South Korea during the U.S. military rule, 1945-1948.
Article from:Feminist Studies Article date:September 22, 2007Author:Lee, Na

LICENSED PROSTITUTION UNDER JAPANESE COLONIAL RULE
Key elements of the system of camptown prostitution that are visible after World War II can be traced to Korea's long history of colonial domination. A substantial foreign military presence combined with traditional forms of prostitution in Korea produced a system of military prostitution that was visible even before the Japanese occupation. When the Goryeo Dynasty (918-1392) on the peninsula came under Mongol domination, the Korean state was forced to round up young women and send them as gongnyeo (literally, tribute women) to Mongols of the Yuan dynasty (1271-1368). The Chosun Dynasty (1392-1910) continued to recruit and offer Korean women to China's Ming Dynasty (1368-1662). Moreover, throughout the Chosun Dynasty, kisaeng (female entertainers similar to Japanese geisha) were trained as registered entertainers to serve the yangban class, an elite ruling stratum including landowners, officials, and scholars. (12) As a group, kisaeng ranked low in the social hierarchy of Korean society, particularly in the period when women's virginity and chastity were highly valued, because they occasionally bartered sex for money or goods. Nonetheless, a professional kisaeng, like a Japanese geisha, was trained in music, arts, and literature and enjoyed a certain respect from the public for her accomplishments. These entertainers were not perceived as mere sexual objects easily purchased in return for money, which is the contemporary perception of prostitutes, but rather as a symbol of sexuality for pleasure.


高麗史 元宗3、世家第27 高麗史27 元宗15年(1273年)3月
壬寅 元遣蠻子[2]媒聘使肖郁來中書省牒云 "南宋襄陽府生券軍人求娶妻室 故差委宣使肖郁押官絹一千六百四十叚前去下高麗國令有司差官一同求娶施行" 肖郁令選無夫婦女一百四十名 督之甚急於是置結昏都監 自是 至秋窮搜 閭井獨女逆賊之妻 僧人之女 僅盈其數怨咨大興例給一女資粧絹十二匹[3]分與蠻子蠻子卽率北還哭聲震天觀者莫不悽
高麗史 十六 世家巻第二十八 忠列王一 忠烈王元年(1275年)冬の条 10月
癸未 遣僉議贊成事兪千遇如元賀正告改官制獻處女十人.
高麗史 十六 世家巻第二十八 忠列王一 忠烈王2年(1276年)
甲子 元遣楊仲信齎幣帛來爲歸附軍五百人聘妻 王遣寡婦處女推考別監正郞金應文等五人於諸道先是慶尙道屯邊官軍頭目申中書省曰: "高麗人無時乘驛致其疲弱設有他變恐不及時." 中書省移牒禁之始立剳子色應文等各受鋪馬剳子以行.

元代高麗貢女制度研究

喜蕾 編 民族出版社

本書以史料為依据探究了13-14世紀元朝与高麗関系史上的一段塵封的歴史。元世祖用“結親”的懐柔政策調解与高麗的関系,大量高麗貢女背井離郷進入元朝社会,形成一種政治和文化現象。

目録

第一章 元代高麗貢女制度的形成與發展

第一節 元帝国與高麗王国之間的政治聯姻關系
第二節 元代高麗貢女制度的確立與發展

第二章 元代高麗貢女年表
第三章 高麗貢女與元朝宮廷

第一節 元朝宮廷中的高麗宮女
第二節 元朝宮廷中的高麗后妃
第三節 元宮高麗貢女族群勢力的后援-高麗宦官

第四章 高麗貢女與元朝社会

第一節 元朝上層社会中的高麗貢女
第二節 元代平民社会中的高麗女性

第五章 貢女制度的本質及其政治影響

第一節 元代高麗貢女制度的本質
第二節 高麗貢女制度對高麗王国的政治影響
第三節 高麗貢女制度對元朝的政治影響

第六章 元代高麗貢女制度的文化闡釋

第一節 元代高麗貢女制度形成的文化背景分析
第二節 高麗貢女制度與元代社会文化變遷
第三節 元代高麗貢女制度的文化意蘊



附録 高麗貢女入元疑年考
参考文献

Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:25 am
by deadlock
韩国国立显忠院就是韩国的靖国神社2009-12-09 02:00
铁一般的事实表明,韩国就是侵华日军的帮凶。
韩国国立显忠院就是韩国的靖国神社!
在韩国显忠院里供奉的韩国军人(朝鲜战争时期阵亡)的大部分是对中国人民犯下累累血债的刽子手。
中国人民应该坚决反对韩国总统参拜显忠院!
中国人民有权向韩国提出战争赔偿!

李明博新年参拜显忠院,国立显忠院介绍
2009年1月1日,李明博在新年第一天早晨到国立显忠院参拜。

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국립서울현충원 [國立─顯忠院, Seoul National Cemetery, Seoul National Memorial Board]

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国立显忠院是韩国国立墓地

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首尔国立显忠院大门

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朴正熙(高木正雄)墓

韩国籍日军宪兵金昌龙是供应731部队马路大的主谋

东北关东军里的韩国籍日军参与了731部队。这个证据确凿!
前韩国陆军中将金昌龙介入了731部队。经他手落入731部队的抗日志士也差不多一百多个。
关东军宪兵特务金昌龙后来当了韩国陆军中将,死后被供奉在韩国大田国家显忠院里,正因为如此韩国的显忠院就是靖国神社。
为了因金昌龙而被731部队活体实验的抗日志士讨回公道,反对韩国总统参拜显忠院。

一:证据
时间:
1940年10月至1943年3月
地点
兴安北省
    
二:中国方面资料
哈尔滨获得“731”活体实验最直接证据 1463人被“特别移送”残忍杀害 

1940年10月至1943年3月,兴安北省地方保安局批捕90人并分别按四种办法处理,其中送往石井部队的中国人35名,蒙古族5人

三:韩国方面资料
关东军韩国籍宪兵金昌龙在1941-1943年之间,东北共破获了50多个抗日情报网。
1941年金昌龙在“兴安北省”一举破获了共产党员王近礼领导的抗日情报网,缴获九台电台,50名抗日志士全部被逮捕--这些被关东军逮捕的抗日志士成了731部队的活体试验品

Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:45 am
by deadlock
Former sex workers in fight for compensation

October 30, 2008

A view of Anjeong-ri near Camp Humphrey.
PYEONGTAEK, Gyeonggi - At 69, Cheon Chang-suk lives alone in a tiny cell with moss-covered walls. She starts her day by collecting recyclable materials off the streets of her neighborhood, items she redeems for less than 1 cent per kilo at local stores.

In the eyes of the Korean government, Cheon is one of many underprivileged citizens who receive monthly welfare aid worth 380,000 won ($271), the minimum cost of living that people with no income get from the state.

But Cheon says the Korean government owes her more because her life was irrevocably turned upside down by the turbulence of modern Korean history.

During the chaotic and impoverished months following the cessation of hostilities of the Korean War (1950-1953), Cheon began working as a yangbuin, a term coined by locals for Korean bargirls and sex workers at major American camptowns, or gijichon in Korean.

Gijichon sprang up across Korea around 1945 when U.S. troops arrived here to begin their post-World War II occupation. The primary function of these brothels was to provide sexual services for U.S. soldiers in a controllable, confined area, a move seen to also protect local women from the American military men.


Soldiers plant a bar where a road will be built before the Yongsan Garrison relocates to Pyeongtaek in 2013. [JoongAng Ilbo]
The camptown economy peaked in Korea during the 1960s when the country was in desperate need of foreign currency to rebuild its war-torn economy.

Camptown prostitution and related businesses on the Korean Peninsula contributed to nearly 25 percent of the Korean GNP, according to Katharine Moon, a professor of political science at Wellesley College, in a 2002 study.

According to Cheon, the Korean government supported the camptown brothels, hoping the industry would boost regional economies.

In fact, recent studies here by scholars and nongovernmental agencies have suggested that the Korean government helped build and maintain the brothels after the Korean War, supporting the claims of women like Cheon.

..

Lee estimates that 11 percent of the total Gyeonggi population was engaged in military prostitution in the 1960s.

The study also claims that the Korean government revised the local Tourism Promotion Act in 1961, registering all G.I. clubs on military bases as “special tourist businesses,” and granted free tax benefits for alcoholic beverages. These clubs were required to make a monthly deposit of $500 to the Bank of Korea, the country’s central bank, as a special “tourism promotion fee,” implying that the Korean government may have benefited from profits made through military prostitution, the report alleges.

..

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Women at an American camptown in 1971. [JoongAng Ilbo]

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Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:50 am
by deadlock
chuck888,

you are disgrace to South Korea. Look how your pride brought down the shames of South Korea. Before ranting, you go should go home, and fix your motherland filled with US camptown prostitutions over the decades.

Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:11 am
by chuck888
LOL, you chinese are doing this to hide your insecurity over your stupid Northeast project that still claiming ancient Korean history as Chinese. After nearly 300 years Manchu controls most of Northern Chinese culture was lost where most Chinese scholars believed cradle of Chinese civilization begun from Northern China (i.e. Yellow river - Shang Dynasty) then only country that still retain remainants of this is Korea. Ancient Koreans were mixed of Dongyi faction (Ye-meak), East-Scythian, Tungus clans from Siberia and some Proto-Mongolian tribes, this is vividly available from ancient Korean culture such as "Sky God - Tengri" aka Tangun, Shamanism from Siberia as well as bronze art work of Dongyi and Gold art works of Scythian. And Koreans claimed themselves as Altaic-language speakers and disassociate themselves from Sino-centric Chinese. This frustrate Chinese who always thought Koreans shared close cultural heritage with ancient Chinese. If you visits Chinese museums you will witness a lot of their fine art works are these from ancient Han, Tang dynasties then it jumps to Song and little bit of Ming stuffs (most of Ming paintings and art works have been destroyed by Manchus during Qing era) then that's it. Their Chinese culture never actually evolved to splendor when Koreans gone through fewer dynasties (Three Kingdoms to Koryo Dynasty and then Choson) and Korean museums are full of continuous cultural items specially paper arts, ceramics/potteries and fabric arts as well as Asia's most well preserved ancient iron amory which some part of it was destroyed and stolen by Japanese. Adding to this, ancient Korea was recorded in every Chinese historical records. This angers Chinese when they claiming tobe most culturally advanced Asian culture. It's like trying to compare Roman culture with Egyptian or Persian cultures.

With ancient Korea's culture, they can practically challenge China's position as only advanced Asian culture and re-writes human history specially with these mysterious Mayhem, totem poles, Dolmens and pyramid shaped stone tombs of Korea that dating more than 3,000 years of history. China's claims on Yan state's knife money and Liaoning bronze dagger can only be found in areas near Korean peninsula and Korea itself. Western scholars are skeptic of Chinese scholars desperate attempt to paint ancient civilizations of Liao river because it doesn't fit the China's original claims on Yellow river civilization as very first Chinese culture. From linguistic expert point of view, current Chinese spoken language is grouped with these of South of Yangtze river and SE Asia which indicates their origin lies with South of Yangtze river not from North of Yellow river as Chinese are claiming.

When comparing cultural rights and originality, we must take every elements of its cultures such as music, religion, burial ritual, spoken language and archaeological evidence. So far Chinese claims are proven tobe flimsy and unlogical.

Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:42 am
by chuck888
Why China's Northeast project is failed.

1. China claims Goguryeo was under Chinese sphere:
There were 35 Chinese states during Goguryeo was existed for 705 years.

2. China claims Goguryeo founded state in Han Dynasty's territory:
According to historical texts, Goguryeo founder Jumong established Goguryeo in Buyeo territory.

3. After fall of Goguryeo, most Goguryeo people went over to China and became Chinese:
Goguryeo people went over to Silla and others founded Balhae 35 years later.

Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:48 am
by chuck888
Here is length of Korean states:

- 한 국 (Hwan-nara) : 3,301년 (3301 years)

- 배달국 (Baedal-nara) : 1,565년 (1565 years)

- 고조선 (Kojoseon) : 2,096년 (2096 years)

- 고구려 (Koguryeo) : 705년 (705 years) (북부여 합치면 900년 - including North Buyeo 900 years)

- 백 제 (Baekje) : 678년 (678 years)

- 신 라 (Silla) : 992년 (992 years)

- 고 려 (Koryo) : 475년 (475 years)

- 조 선 (Joseon) : 518년 (518 years)

No other foreign monarch states lasted this long.

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Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:51 am
by chuck888
Map of Dangun Joseon and it's cultural/political influence

Set 1 - Showing important areas
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According to Chinese nationalists that Korea have distorted history about Gojoseon and it's political boundaries.

The above map is may not be the accurate but approx. boundaries of Gojoseon's at their greatest political & cultural influence according to archeological evidence and various cites from historical records from both Chinese & Korean sources indicate they are indeed very close.

Byeon-Josen was the military and trade arm of Dagun Josen. and their trade influence stretched all the way to Sumer. According to HwanDanGoGi, Khan of Byeon-Josen sends an army to defend Sumer at mesopotamia (present day Iraq) from the attack of Semites. And similar story is told by Sumer writings. On the tomb stone of the founding king of Kaya, Kim Suro, and Kim YooShin, it is stated that the last name Kim comes from Soho Kimchun of Byeon-Josen. Soho is the name of region Kimchun is the name of river which they mined gold and metal. Byeon-Josen was the first to fall from the invading Han army of China and they were the first to immigrate to Southern part of Korea, to Kaya. However before we can discuss Byeon-Josen, we must discuss HongSan culture. They were the first pyramid builders and they were the bear clan. HongSan culture is a Jade culture and predates bronze age (6000 years ago). In fact the oldest writings written on Jade are now being discoverd at HongSan and they are older than previous oldest writing at Sandong. The Chinese are calling the writing of dragon, pig, and emperor character that are identical to Shang dynasty writting, as the first dragon symbol of China and first writing of China. These pyramid builders used Jade as their tool and the Jade of Hongsan actually comes from the region of Baekdu mountain, some 3000 km away, thus they must be classified as an organized government. They worshipped bear, they worshipped goddess, they used Jade as their tool, and they were pyramid builders. Their are no pyramids in China, but we all know there are 12000 pyramids in Goguryo. Later HongSan culture unite with Bronze culture of Baedal and found Dangun Joseon. And the region where the Bear clan of HongSan used to be is called Byon-Josen. Do you still think the story of Dangoon is a myth???

Re: Altaic influence on Chinese and Chinese Language

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:55 am
by chuck888
Korean connection to Khitan

Khitan people originally lived in Liao (Western Manchuria) where was traditional Gojoseon's area. Lots of Gojoseon related remai
The sites that Gojoseon's remains found. Lots of them are in Liao area (the upper left area)
ns are found in Liao area. There are historic records showing Khitan's origin from Gojoseon. Khitans had Gojoseon's 8 laws. Some Khitan tribes were included in Goguryeo after King Ganggaeto's military campaign in 410, and Goguryeo's expansion continued further during King Jansoo. Khitan people later believed that Goguryeo belonged to Khitan.


1. Gojoseon connection to Khitan
Khitan built Liao dynasty (遼, 915-1125). According to History of Liao (遼史, 1343) [1], Liao was originally in Gojoseon's land. Liao people had Gojoseon's 8 laws and culture [3] [4].


•遼本朝鮮故壤,箕子八條之敎,流風遺俗,蓋有存者 (in chapter 49 of 遼史/卷49)
•辽本朝鲜故壤,箕子八条之教,流风遗俗,盖有存者 (simplified Chinese)

Liao's Eastern capital was origially in Gojoseon's land [2].

•東京遼陽府,本朝鮮之地 (in chapter 38 of 遼史/卷38)
•东京辽阳府,本朝鲜之地 (simplified Chinese)


2. Goguryeo connection to Khitan
A part of Khitan was included in Goguryeo as King Ganggaeto conquered Biryeo (碑麗, a Khitan tribe) in 410, and King Jangsoo expanded further. When Khitans built Liao dynasty, Khitans invaded Goryeo to get back the Goguryeo's territory that Goryeo occuppied. Khitans believed that Goguryeo belonged to Khitans. however, Goryeo also believed that Goguryeo belonged to Goryeo. They had wars and Goryeo defeated Khitans (993-1019) [5]. Goyreo won at the fight in inheriting Goguryeo.

Khitan and Goryeo had a talk when Khitan invaded Goryeo in 993. Their dialog was recorded in history book, Goryeosa. The Khitan general Sosonyoung (蕭遜寧) asserted that Goguryeo's land belongs to Khitan.

•大朝,旣已奄有高句麗舊地,今爾國,侵奪疆界,是用征討,又移書云 (in volume 2, Goryeosa jeolyo)

Khitan also claimed that Goyreo was originated from Silla, Goguryeo's land belongs to Khitan, and Goyreo encroached Goguryeo's land.

•語煕曰,汝國,興新羅地,高句麗之地,我所有也,而汝侵蝕之 (in volume 2, Goryeosa jeolyo)

Goryeo claimed that Goryeo was the descendent of Goguryeo, the country name 'Goryeo(高麗)' was from Goguryeo(高句麗), and Goreyo set up the capital in Pyungyang which was Goguryeo's last capital.

•我國,卽高勾麗之舊也,故號高麗,都平壤,若論地界,上國之東京,皆在我境 (in volume 2, Goryeosa jeolyo)

Goryeo-Khitan wars continued until 1019. As Goryeo defeated Khitan, Goryeo was known for the descendent of Goguryeo.


[1] History of Liao (遼史), 1343, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liao
[2] History of Liao (遼史), 卷38, http://zh.wikisource.org/w/index.php?ti ... iant=zh-mo
[3] History of Liao (遼史), 卷49, http://www.njmuseum.com/rbbook/gb/25/liaoshi/49.html
[4] Gojoseon's 8 Rules, wikipedia.org, http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%ED%8C%94% ... 0%EA%B5%90
[5] Goyreo-Khitan wars, wikipedia.org, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goryeo-Khitan_Wars

Image
The sites that Gojoseon's remains found. Lots of them are in Liao area (the upper left area)